Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

[Zynerji]

We just need rectennas that are tuned to the big bang frequency!

[maxxer]

I always see people who have a home talking about ev cars
I live in a 12 story building consisting of 3 cores with 4 apartments each.
So that means 180 loading stations just for this building and there is another one accros me.
Our bycicle storage is tiny you have to hang up your bike on a hook.
Do you ever see people hanging their cars on a hook to save space ?

[FW17]

I always see people who have a home talking about ev cars
I live in a 12 story building consisting of 3 cores with 4 apartments each.
So that means 180 loading stations just for this building and there is another one accros me.
Our bycicle storage is tiny you have to hang up your bike on a hook.
Do you ever see people hanging their cars on a hook to save space ?

If they found 180 car parking spots, what is the difficulty in reviewing a power socket for each?

[Andres125sx]

I do, but it seems you blithely ignore them, or denigrate them, emotively.

What if you actually checked/understood the source/links already provided?

The only link you provided is about infrasound affecting people, nothing about birds affected by blade vortex.

But I guess you will never provide a source for this, basically because its your own invention based on old problems solved decades ago with modern mills with big and slow moving blades

Seems your powers of guesswork* are as limited as your 'google fu' - Andres, as a seen below,
just scroll across to ~1:20 in to see an eagle fatally caught in a vortex, then struck dead,
then listen to an explanation how - "big slow" - vortex pressure changes affect bats, too:




* Really, were you unable to grasp the prop-scaling program, on the NASA site, I'd linked earlier?

Apart from your condescending tone wich only shows your arrogance, but that is far from new... I can´t see any bird caught in a vortex. When a bird is soaring, if he enters a vortex wich is turbulent air, he will flap to get out of the vortex/turbulent air, but that does not flap, he´s just soaring wich means he´s in clean air

Apart from that, Do you fight against anything you see on a YT video?

Do you fight windows as they kill a lot more birds than wind mills?

Do you fight cars?

Do you fight fossil fuels?

Any of these is killing a lot more birds than wind mills, any reason you only blame the less relevant reason?


https://www.evwind.es/2020/10/01/the-re ... ines/77477


Even bird associations are in favour of wind mills. As anything, if done properly. You can´t blame knifes because some people use them to kill people same as you can´t blame wind mills because some have placed it in migratory paths without any consideration...

ABC supports wind energy development when it is bird-smart

https://abcbirds.org/wp-content/uploads ... -Sheet.pdf

https://abcbirds.org/blog21/wind-turbin ... -to-birds/

[maxxer]

I always see people who have a home talking about ev cars
I live in a 12 story building consisting of 3 cores with 4 apartments each.
So that means 180 loading stations just for this building and there is another one accros me.
Our bycicle storage is tiny you have to hang up your bike on a hook.
Do you ever see people hanging their cars on a hook to save space ?

If they found 180 car parking spots, what is the difficulty in reviewing a power socket for each?

They havent to start with , 2nd is the grid is not able to charge 180 cars

[Tommy Cookers]

Guy Martin on UK TV 2 nights ago told/showed me that ......

EV batteries now have better crash-safety due to multiple internal fuses (so only one part-battery can get shorted)

fast-charging stations often charge far more than ICE fuel costs eg 70p/kw-hr (and aren't fast)

'don't buy an electric car if you drive more than 50 miles' - (motorways guzzle your electric fuel)
'do buy an electric car of you don't drive more than 50 miles'


btw drag strips are spray-coated with adhesive eg via Datsun 'Gluebird' at Santa Pod (G.M.'s electric beetle did 10.6 sec)

[nzjrs]

Guy Martin on UK TV 2 nights ago told/showed me that ......

Oh, I'd love to watch this. Do you remember what it was called?

[Tommy Cookers]

something like ?
'Guy Martin - world's fastest electric car'
ITV4 Monday 9th
(presumably at present UK-watchable on demand)

iirc during GM's project Jay Leno took the record to a place beyond the project's reach

[Andres125sx]

I always see people who have a home talking about ev cars
I live in a 12 story building consisting of 3 cores with 4 apartments each.
So that means 180 loading stations just for this building and there is another one accros me.
Our bycicle storage is tiny you have to hang up your bike on a hook.
Do you ever see people hanging their cars on a hook to save space ?

If they found 180 car parking spots, what is the difficulty in reviewing a power socket for each?

They havent to start with , 2nd is the grid is not able to charge 180 cars

Who said that?

People usually asume fast charging is the norm, when It is not. Normally slow night charging is enough for most people (ie those who drive up to 100km a day) and that is done with the standard power for homes (around 3-5kW).

If grid can feed homes at day, It can feed same number of slow chargers at night

[El Scorchio]

something like ?
'Guy Martin - world's fastest electric car'
ITV4 Monday 9th
(presumably at present UK-watchable on demand)

iirc during GM's project Jay Leno took the record to a place beyond the project's reach

Ha! I was just going to come and post that on here as I watched it yesterday. Really interesting show and some beautiful vehicles. (That van....)
It was on Channel 4 though rather than ITV, in case people are looking for it!

[MattWellsyWells]

something like ?
'Guy Martin - world's fastest electric car'
ITV4 Monday 9th
(presumably at present UK-watchable on demand)

iirc during GM's project Jay Leno took the record to a place beyond the project's reach

Ha! I was just going to come and post that on here as I watched it yesterday. Really interesting show and some beautiful vehicles. (That van....)
It was on Channel 4 though rather than ITV, in case people are looking for it!

I also watched this documentary and it was very interesting. I was surprised when they concluded it was more expensive than ICE on long journeys. I saw a friend at the weekend who has recently bought a VW ID.3 and he says he absolutely loves it and would never go back to ICE. He doesn't do that many long journeys but said he recently drove from Oxford to Bangor (about 450 mile round trip) and that it only cost him about £15!

[Just_a_fan]

Guy Martin on UK TV 2 nights ago told/showed me that ......

fast-charging stations often charge far more than ICE fuel costs eg 70p/kw-hr (and aren't fast)

As is usual, there is often a quoting of extremes when putting forward arguments for/against EVs. Some fast chargers may charge 70p/kWh but that's not to say all do.

For example, this site says rapid charging at £6.50 for approx. 100 mile range. That's a lot less than an ICE for the same 100 miles.

The cost to charge an electric car in the UK varies between home, work and public charging.

For a typical electric car with a 60kWh battery and ~200 mile range:

Charging at home: Costs about £9.20 for a full charge. *
Charging at work: Many employers will install workplace charging points and typically offer free access throughout the day.
Charging at public locations: Public chargepoints at supermarkets or car parks are often free to use for the duration of your stay.
Rapid charging: Rapid charging points are normally found at motorway service stations and typically cost £6.50 for a 30 min, ~100 mile charge.
* Costs calculated at 17p/kWh based on usable battery is ~54kWh (90%).

https://pod-point.com/guides/driver/cos ... ectric-car

BP charge 42p/kWh on their "pulse 150" chargers (150kW chargers), less if you have a subscription. Again, that's much less than the 70p/kWh suggested above, and less than an ICE equivalent. BP's site claims a 250 mile charge/refuel will cost £7.50 for the EV, £37.50 for the ICE and that's based on c.33mpg and £1.15 / litre. Well fuel is much more than £1.15 / litre these days being in the £1.30-£1.40+ range, now.

Shell charge 41p/kWh:

Charging at a Shell Recharge charge points costs 41p per kWh in the UK. You can pay using contactless or use the Shell recharge app and card which allow you to keep track of all your charges at Shell and other major providers on the network.

So one wonders where the 70p/kWh comes from. I guess there will be small providers charging more if they're somewhere where the major suppliers aren't covering well yet.

There is also a "horses for courses" issue, too, of course. EVs may not be the best bet for someone that needs to do long journeys with minimal down time during the journey. But EVs are probably extremely well suited to people doing lots of shorter urban journeys. ICEs certainly don't like short journeys as they never get warmed through properly - especially with the emissions/particulate filters fitted to them now. So someone doing 200 miles to a one hour meeting and then 200 miles back home might not be well served by an EV unless the meeting location is well served with ultra-fast chargers. But then how many people (in the UK / Europe) do that sort of journey profile? Not many, I'd bet. I can see it being more likely in the US, however, but even then it'll be much less than the number of people that sit in urban traffic each day. EVs are great in urban traffic because they're quick off the line and so can go for gaps in traffic, etc., where some ICEs might struggle (unless being driven by the Dukes of Hazzard! )

Do the current breed of EVs and charging infrastructure suit every driver? No, of course not. Has anyone seriously claimed that they do? No, of course not. Can they be developed to do so? No reason why not.

[J.A.W.]

Guy Martin on UK TV 2 nights ago told/showed me that ......

fast-charging stations often charge far more than ICE fuel costs eg 70p/kw-hr (and aren't fast)

As is usual, there is often a quoting of extremes when putting forward arguments for/against EVs. Some fast chargers may charge 70p/kWh but that's not to say all do.

For example, this site says rapid charging at £6.50 for approx. 100 mile range. That's a lot less than an ICE for the same 100 miles.

The cost to charge an electric car in the UK varies between home, work and public charging.

For a typical electric car with a 60kWh battery and ~200 mile range:

Charging at home: Costs about £9.20 for a full charge. *
Charging at work: Many employers will install workplace charging points and typically offer free access throughout the day.
Charging at public locations: Public chargepoints at supermarkets or car parks are often free to use for the duration of your stay.
Rapid charging: Rapid charging points are normally found at motorway service stations and typically cost £6.50 for a 30 min, ~100 mile charge.
* Costs calculated at 17p/kWh based on usable battery is ~54kWh (90%).

https://pod-point.com/guides/driver/cos ... ectric-car

BP charge 42p/kWh on their "pulse 150" chargers (150kW chargers), less if you have a subscription. Again, that's much less than the 70p/kWh suggested above, and less than an ICE equivalent. BP's site claims a 250 mile charge/refuel will cost £7.50 for the EV, £37.50 for the ICE and that's based on c.33mpg and £1.15 / litre. Well fuel is much more than £1.15 / litre these days being in the £1.30-£1.40+ range, now.

Shell charge 41p/kWh:

Charging at a Shell Recharge charge points costs 41p per kWh in the UK. You can pay using contactless or use the Shell recharge app and card which allow you to keep track of all your charges at Shell and other major providers on the network.

So one wonders where the 70p/kWh comes from. I guess there will be small providers charging more if they're somewhere where the major suppliers aren't covering well yet.

There is also a "horses for courses" issue, too, of course. EVs may not be the best bet for someone that needs to do long journeys with minimal down time during the journey. But EVs are probably extremely well suited to people doing lots of shorter urban journeys. ICEs certainly don't like short journeys as they never get warmed through properly - especially with the emissions/particulate filters fitted to them now. So someone doing 200 miles to a one hour meeting and then 200 miles back home might not be well served by an EV unless the meeting location is well served with ultra-fast chargers. But then how many people (in the UK / Europe) do that sort of journey profile? Not many, I'd bet. I can see it being more likely in the US, however, but even then it'll be much less than the number of people that sit in urban traffic each day. EVs are great in urban traffic because they're quick off the line and so can go for gaps in traffic, etc., where some ICEs might struggle (unless being driven by the Dukes of Hazzard! )

Do the current breed of EVs and charging infrastructure suit every driver? No, of course not. Has anyone seriously claimed that they do? No, of course not. Can they be developed to do so? No reason why not.

With Brent crude so low in price per barrel benchmark, why them Duke boys surely oughta be able to
let rip in their ultra-fast charger, any dang time they wanna yell 'YEEEHAAA", & go hell for leather!

[maxxer]

If they found 180 car parking spots, what is the difficulty in reviewing a power socket for each?

They havent to start with , 2nd is the grid is not able to charge 180 cars

Who said that?

People usually asume fast charging is the norm, when It is not. Normally slow night charging is enough for most people (ie those who drive up to 100km a day) and that is done with the standard power for homes (around 3-5kW).

If grid can feed homes at day, It can feed same number of slow chargers at night

I said it and i know the grid in my country isnt ready for this , while we are going to shut the nuclear reactors down soon
Wind energy is not being stored and solar energy doesnt work when the sun is down while all these cars needing to charge + the houses need heating based on electricity once we stop using gas

[DChemTech]

They havent to start with , 2nd is the grid is not able to charge 180 cars

Who said that?

People usually asume fast charging is the norm, when It is not. Normally slow night charging is enough for most people (ie those who drive up to 100km a day) and that is done with the standard power for homes (around 3-5kW).

If grid can feed homes at day, It can feed same number of slow chargers at night

I said it and i know the grid in my country isnt ready for this , while we are going to shut the nuclear reactors down soon
Wind energy is not being stored and solar energy doesnt work when the sun is down while all these cars needing to charge + the houses need heating based on electricity once we stop using gas

You are deliberately constructing some worst-case scenario now, and then acting like its somehow a problem only for and due to EVs.

First off, most people will not need fast chargers, no matter what you say. The argument that most of the time cars can charge at night when the load on the grid is otherwise low holds perfectly. Yes, as homes are being further electrified, the overall capacity of the grid may need to increase. But that is not a particular problem for EVs, its a general problem for the electricity system - and if capacity shortages occur, there are bigger worries than EV charging. (Also, we typically heat our homes more during daytime than at nighttime).

There is also no need go to into the politics of particular countries related to their energy mix. Those decisions can be critiqued, but this is not the place for it. Nor is it that relevant, as the EVs already beat the similar ICE vehicles on a typical western energy mix as is, and the difference will only grow as the energy mix transitions. Yes, that transition is a challenge in itself, and such political choices will affect the pace - but thats not something against EVs in particular.