Aerodynamic balance biased towards inside or outside tire?

[Joe7218]

Hi all,

Just wondering if during any given cornering situation, would you want the aerodynamic balance to be closer towards the inside pair of wheels or outside?

Intuitively I would think you would want to give more downforce to the inside tires; as those are the unloaded tires during a corner is this correct?

I am thinking about say, splitting the drs flap in half, and then having each 'flap' open or close by varying amounts to shift the aero balance left and right (ignoring the foward and back shift this would also cause, would need a similar mechanism on the front wing or something). Would this have any unwanted downsides if shifting balance towards inside side of car?

Thanks!

[EvilPhil II]

Hi all,

Just wondering if during any given cornering situation, would you want the aerodynamic balance to be closer towards the inside pair of wheels or outside?

Intuitively I would think you would want to give more downforce to the inside tires; as those are the unloaded tires during a corner is this correct?

I am thinking about say, splitting the drs flap in half, and then having each 'flap' open or close by varying amounts to shift the aero balance left and right (ignoring the foward and back shift this would also cause, would need a similar mechanism on the front wing or something). Would this have any unwanted downsides if shifting balance towards inside side of car?

Thanks!

I am not an engineer, but stick your hand out the side of a car window (when safe to do so). I am guessing the inside would cause more drag and therefore more rotation.

[UlleGulle]

Yeah. And It's been done.

Pagani Huayra raises it's flaps on the inside to increase downforce on the unloaded tires and prevent roll.

Zenvo has a solution where they flip the whole back wing to achive the same thing.

[Stu]

This looks more like a gimmick than anything truly useful.
The wing is mounted to the body, so any forces are applied to the body, if you wanted to actively change individual wheel loading the wing would need to be split and have at least one mount attached to the wheel-hub.

[Joe7218]

Would the benefit of increased load on the inside tires outweighs the reduction in total downforce that this would cause?
I guess it would be determined by the corner type and if you are limited by power or grip.

This looks more like a gimmick than anything truly useful.
The wing is mounted to the body, so any forces are applied to the body, if you wanted to actively change individual wheel loading the wing would need to be split and have at least one mount attached to the wheel-hub.

This is an interesting thought, would the forces not travel through the body and suspension system into the tyres though?
Of course unsprung aero would always be more efficient I guess.

[AnthonyG]

Ferrari used an assymetric rear wing on their F2007 or F2008 for the Monza race.
I'm struggling to find a picture of it however.

[Big Tea]

Yeah. And It's been done.

Pagani Huayra raises it's flaps on the inside to increase downforce on the unloaded tires and prevent roll.

Zenvo has a solution where they flip the whole back wing to achive the same thing.

https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/960x ... it%3Dscale

What about the other side of the coin? pop out drag brake on the inside corner?

[Xwang]

This looks more like a gimmick than anything truly useful.
The wing is mounted to the body, so any forces are applied to the body, if you wanted to actively change individual wheel loading the wing would need to be split and have at least one mount attached to the wheel-hub.

I do not agree.
In any case an asymmetric aerodynamic body would give a resultant force whose aerodynamic centre would not be in the car's symmetry plane.
So it the aerodynamic is made to create more downforce on a side of the car, the wheels on the opposite sides of each axle will receive corresponding different loads.
It's the same principle which is used in the longitudinal case to balance the aerodynamic load between front and rear axle and it does not require to attach the wing to the wheel hub.
Asymmetric aerodynamic setups have been used in all speedway races since ages (if allowed by rules).

[Just_a_fan]

Yeah. And It's been done.

Pagani Huayra raises it's flaps on the inside to increase downforce on the unloaded tires and prevent roll.

Zenvo has a solution where they flip the whole back wing to achive the same thing.

https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/960x ... it%3Dscale

That wing will cause a small reduction in downforce but it will give an increased lateral force albeit likely quite small.

Remember that lift acts normal to the surface - if you angle the surface, you change the vector resulting in a reduced downwards vector and adding a sideways one.

Looks like a gimmick to me.

[jjn9128]

Yeah. And It's been done.

Pagani Huayra raises it's flaps on the inside to increase downforce on the unloaded tires and prevent roll.

Zenvo has a solution where they flip the whole back wing to achive the same thing.

https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/960x ... it%3Dscale

That wing will cause a small reduction in downforce but it will give an increased lateral force albeit likely quite small.

Remember that lift acts normal to the surface - if you angle the surface, you change the vector resulting in a reduced downwards vector and adding a sideways one.

Looks like a gimmick to me.

Oh fo’sho’ it’s a gimmick.

[PhillipM]

100% a gimmick, it's heavier and gives less cornering grip than a normal stationary wing would. But hey it looks fancy!

[UlleGulle]

Looks like a gimmick to me.

Of course it is.

[Slo Poke]

Air rarified diffusers and fifties Dodge Lancer style mechanised rear fin wings is the way to go.

[Hoffman900]

Asymmetric aerodynamic setups have been used in all speedway races since ages (if allowed by rules).

Like Sprint Cars? They're about the aero equivalent of a sheet of plywood. Most are the way they are due to rules, tradition, and they provide advertisement space.

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/ctrp- ... odynamics/

Then there are these crazy things:


They're fast (lap speeds of 135mph + average), but mostly backyard engineering / monkey-see-monkey-do.

[Xwang]

Asymmetric aerodynamic setups have been used in all speedway races since ages (if allowed by rules).

Like Sprint Cars? They're about the aero equivalent of a sheet of plywood. Most are the way they are due to rules, tradition, and they provide advertisement space.
https://worldofoutlaws.com/wp-content/u ... 24x629.jpg
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/ctrp- ... odynamics/

Then there are these crazy things:
https://speed51.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... amazoo.png

They're fast (lap speeds of 135mph + average), but mostly backyard engineering / monkey-see-monkey-do.

AFAIK indycars used asymmetric aero (front flaps) at least before they became a single constructor serie.
NASCAR cars had a "banana" shaped bodywork so that to generate a centripetal aerodynamic sideforce (with the latest generation they have forbidden that).