2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

[Hammerfist]

It is obvious hat the car is designed to suit his driving style. They are putting all their eggs in one basket. This is the first year that this philosophy seems to have worked but it ain’t over yet. Redbull’s resurgence had a lot to do with the curveball Mercedes got thrown with this years floor regulations. For me merc is still the superior constructor and next year it will be obvious once again. If verstappen doesnt win the wdc this year he may not be able to win one ever again with Redbull.

Maybe. This is the first year with hybrid turbos that Red Bull have had close to the same power level as Mercedes. If Mercedes had supplied Red Bull with power units say from 2016, then the comparison of chassis quality of Merc vs RB would be easier to make. With different power levels, it is harder to compare the relative quality of the chassis/aero.

I just meant recently merc are better. In 2014, 2016 2017 id say redbull was clearly better chassis wise but those cars werent built around Max and even Kvyat could get them to perform. Wasnt until 2019 when its clear that it became Max’s car and those cars havent been close to merc chassis wise until this year and nobody else seems to be able to drive them.

[JordanMugen]

It is obvious hat the car is designed to suit his driving style. They are putting all their eggs in one basket. This is the first year that this philosophy seems to have worked but it ain’t over yet. Redbull’s resurgence had a lot to do with the curveball Mercedes got thrown with this years floor regulations. For me merc is still the superior constructor and next year it will be obvious once again. If verstappen doesnt win the wdc this year he may not be able to win one ever again with Redbull.

Maybe. This is the first year with hybrid turbos that Red Bull have had close to the same power level as Mercedes. If Mercedes had supplied Red Bull with power units say from 2016, then the comparison of chassis quality of Merc vs RB would be easier to make. With different power levels, it is harder to compare the relative quality of the chassis/aero.

What about the last minute chassis handicap that Merc got?

That was not deliberate by the FIA. Most pundits though the rule change would hurt high rake teams more.

I'm certainly glad it helped Red Bull though, RBR need all the help they can get!

So you suppose Newey is overrated, and the Mercedes design team is far more skilled with their low rake car? It's not to do with Mercedes historically throwing more money at the problem than everyone else on the chassis (even more than Red Bull or Ferrari)?

Mercedes also threw more money at the power unit side than anyone else too for that matter...

[Stu]

What happens to the race start tires now? Most teams would have been on used sets for a banker lap.

That is a very good point and could end up being critical to the result tomorrow….

[Zynerji]

So far, everything points to Incidents filled circus tomorrow. Pit stops would come free.

I expect zero actual pit stops in the race.

Just 3 free tyre changes during red-flag periods...

This actually isn't a bad guess

Have we had a 0 stopper in the prime/option era?

[Scorpaguy]

Great track for onboards...flows like it was created via CGI. I predict lots of offroad excursions, and the gravel truck may need to stay handy. Tilke be damned...this is a racetrack.

[El Scorchio]

SO neither HAAS will be penalised for impeding Vettel. Wow

That’s incredible. How?!

[xaero]

Maybe. This is the first year with hybrid turbos that Red Bull have had close to the same power level as Mercedes. If Mercedes had supplied Red Bull with power units say from 2016, then the comparison of chassis quality of Merc vs RB would be easier to make. With different power levels, it is harder to compare the relative quality of the chassis/aero.

What about the last minute chassis handicap that Merc got?

That was not deliberate by the FIA. Most pundits though the rule change would hurt high rake teams more.

I'm certainly glad it helped Red Bull though, RBR need all the help they can get!

So you suppose Newey is overrated, and the Mercedes design team is far more skilled with their low rake car? It's not to do with Mercedes historically throwing more money at the problem than everyone else on the chassis (even more than Red Bull or Ferrari)?

Mercedes also threw more money at the power unit side than anyone else too for that matter...

For once, lets assume Merc was throwing more money, but who stopped other teams doing the same (as per you, rules are same for everyone.. right)? I would prefer not to comment on Newey, but it is not like he has won everything every time (and history has enough evidence of the same).

[MtthsMlw]

SO neither HAAS will be penalised for impeding Vettel. Wow

That’s incredible. How?!

"Although Car 5 was impeded, in the circumstances this was not "unnecessary
impeding"

[Tvetovnato]

Mega job from Verstappen and Hamilton. Wow. I expect an easy win for Max tomorrow though. The rear end still isn’t quite there for Merc, with some hesitation out of the banking of T3, and some small snap oversteer here and there, which surely is inherent to the car this year. Max can do the times more comfortable all weekend, and will eek out 5-10 seconds before the stop.

[JordanMugen]

For once, lets assume Merc was throwing more money, but who stopped other teams doing the same (as per you, rules are same for everyone.. right)?

Because they don't have any more money? Red Bull and Ferrari certainly still spent a lot but even they can't justify an unlimited budget to try to win at any cost.

Look at Toyota in WEC. Without Audi and Peugeot competiting, Toyota now have the biggest budget by far and can win easily -- whereas before it was quite difficult for Toyota to win. Does that mean they are most skilled or just the competition is now less and underfinanced? I'm not sure.

If Mercedes wasn't there, Red Bull would win everything. As they did when Mercedes was underfunded like their underdeveloped 2010 Mercedes car.

[El Scorchio]

SO neither HAAS will be penalised for impeding Vettel. Wow

That’s incredible. How?!

"Although Car 5 was impeded, in the circumstances this was not "unnecessary
impeding"

That’s absolute madness. Opens a can of worms going forward as well now.

[RZS10]

From the ruling it would appear that Vettel put in a good word shifting the blame to the overall situation, so it's not a given that this decision will be taken as a precedent for any impeding in the future, additionally the issue also arose because Vettel decided to jump the queue, which also played a role (they mention the large speed delta).

[xaero]

For once, lets assume Merc was throwing more money, but who stopped other teams doing the same (as per you, rules are same for everyone.. right)?

Because they don't have any more money? Red Bull and Ferrari certainly still spent a lot but even they can't justify an unlimited budget to try to win at any cost.

Look at Toyota in WEC. Without Audi and Peugeot competiting, Toyota now have the biggest budget by far and can win easily -- whereas before it was quite difficult for Toyota to win. Does that mean they are most skilled or just the competition is now less and underfinanced? I'm not sure.

If Mercedes wasn't there, Red Bull would win everything. As they did when Mercedes was underfunded like their underdeveloped 2010 Mercedes car.

Nothing much to say because I don't think we will ever agree so, lets agree to disagree. Just one thing though- I hope next year goal post will not be shifted

[Mansell89]

Awesome circuit - just could do with an extra 25 seconds of lap with a big straight and it would be bang on the money.

Hope tomorrow goes okay- that congested midfield is likely to see some off road incidents.

[codetower]

This season has been Max vs Mercedes. Really he is putting that RBR where it does not belong.

It's plainly obvious that the Red Bull is the quicker car.

No driver can driver faster than the car can go. It's simply impossible. The best drivers get the most from the car available to them. That's always been the way since day one of motor racing.

Do you think Mercedes will end up regretting letting Bottas go? Just about every race he's close to Hamilton, arguably the best driver on the track most weeks. He’s outracing Perez with what most say is a slower car… I dont think Mercedes wins the WCS this year (I think they will win it) without Bottas.