Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[HPD]

[Wazari]

I really haven't heard anything that's newsworthy IMO. I hear everything is on track, going with slightly more conservative "4.1" PU at season's start. Rumored that at least one "version" of built PU has exceeded 700 kWh but just a rumor...........

That's fair enough actually. Conservative start is probably a smart move. Keep things rolling at decent but safe pace while development continues for down the line.
Curious about the "one version" line. Are you talking like a spec 4.2/3/4/5? Or are you suggesting one of the 4.1's built has hit 700 on the dyno?

I do know that a Spec "4.1 and 4.2" (numbers just for simplicity sake), were built and dyno-tested. I also understand that at least one of them has exceeded not met, 700 kWh, but I am not there and my nephew just smiles when I ask him.

I don't know what Renault is doing and whether they have hit this 950 HP number. As far as this "new" combustion process as with any new idea, it takes time and tremendous amount of money to develop. I believe that many great ideas never leave the drawing board or even never leave the creator's head because of the two reasons. To go from paper to casting, forging, milling, etc ICE parts is a lengthy, costly process. And when it's not your money being spent, then obviously some higher-ups need to believe and bless your ideas for them to see the light of day. While it might sound like an excuse, the other 3 PU manufacturers all have had a head start, some more than others. Of course I am happy that HRD has decided to move forward with this concept and to see rudimentary versions actually running is very exciting to me. When the final product will actually make it to the race track is speculation at this point. However without this process/design, I don't think Mercedes will be passed.

[McMika98]

As always thanks Wazari. I hope this 950 number from Renault is a targeted figure for 2018 and will only materialise on the third and final engine.
Judging by the infancy of this combustion, it will be most likely be introduced next year. Hope it has 1000hp in the cylinders as that will be the moving target next year.

[Wazari]

As always thanks Wazari. I hope this 950 number from Renault is a targeted figure for 2018 and will only materialise on the third and final engine.
Judging by the infancy of this combustion, it will be most likely be introduced next year. Hope it has 1000hp in the cylinders as that will be the moving target next year.

I am being told the target date is right after summer break.

[GhostF1]

As always thanks Wazari. I hope this 950 number from Renault is a targeted figure for 2018 and will only materialise on the third and final engine.
Judging by the infancy of this combustion, it will be most likely be introduced next year. Hope it has 1000hp in the cylinders as that will be the moving target next year.

I am being told the target date is right after summer break.

Aiming for a bit of a boost at Spa I see. It would also tie in with Helmut Marko's comment: "Honda have already found something, approx mid season we shall see".

I wish good luck to you, your nephew and all the team involved with this exciting new PU venture you are watching happen!

[Wouter]

I hope this 950 number from Renault is a targeted figure for 2018 and will only materialise on the third and final engine.

Renault will start the season with a reliable 950 HP engine. I hope the first Honda engine is close to that.

[McMika98]

Renault will start the season with a reliable 950 HP engine. I hope the first Honda engine is close to that.

We will find out in couple of weeks until then i have my doubts.

[amho]

Does anyone knows that how many horses these typical ICE lose over a race week? Mr.wazari is it possible for you to hint about that? is power degradation during 7 races is enough to convince design an engine for a shorter life and go for penalties?

[godlameroso]

If I had to guess these engines lose power for two main reasons, valve leakage, or the piston rings wearing out. The other spinny stuff wears out because the bearings wear and start gaining clearance, the batteries wear out due to repeated charge discharge cycles. The FIA doesn't let you rebuild the engines and I imagine these are the big wear items contributing to power loss. I doubt they use timing chains that can stretch and throw cam timing off.

[Joseki]

Renault will start the season with a reliable 950 HP engine. I hope the first Honda engine is close to that.

Renault told us they will start the season with 950+ hp, we don't really know if they'll really start with that. They could have 970 or 930, we just can't know.

[Wazari]

General rule of thumb for small displacement race ICE is 0.5 to 1.0% loss in power per 1000 km due to many of the reasons mentioned above. To have a 3 PU limit per season IMO is ridiculous. I understand FIA's rationale for doing this but there are other ways to achieve to cost-cutting. Can you imagine a 3 to 5 engine per season limit in NASCAR?

[godlameroso]

General rule of thumb for small displacement race ICE is 0.5 to 1.0% loss in power per 1000 km due to many of the reasons mentioned above. To have a 3 PU limit per season IMO is ridiculous. I understand FIA's rationale for doing this but there are other ways to achieve to cost-cutting. Can you imagine a 3 to 5 engine per season limit in NASCAR?

I will honestly be surprised if anyone makes it to the end with 3 engines.

[fellowhoodlums]

This might raise an eyebrow or two but I think the best placed teams for making 3 engines last are Ferrari engined....or.....Honda. (I know)

Mercedes have gone "new design" so there is the unknown and Renault ended last season with big reliability woes. Renault cannot stop pushing for more power so their engine development will introduce more risk whilst trying to solve last years issues.

Ferrari and Honda ended 2017 reliably and gone with evolutionary change.

[GhostF1]

This might raise an eyebrow or two but I think the best placed teams for making 3 engines last are Ferrari engined....or.....Honda. (I know)

Mercedes have gone "new design" so there is the unknown and Renault ended last season with big reliability woes. Renault cannot stop pushing for more power so their engine development will introduce more risk whilst trying to solve last years issues.

Ferrari and Honda ended 2017 reliably and gone with evolutionary change.

Technically possible, but I would never discount Mercedes in this era. And with Honda... I know what you're getting at, I just hope they've managed to sort the MGU-H out. My worries are they won't start the season with their own design MGU-H just yet and are aiming mid season for that and have to continue with an outsourced design early season as they hinted. If it is indeed still outsourced, there is an enormous question over whether that will hinder them in any way.

It's getting all rather interesting for this year.

[Zynerji]

One would have to question what cost savings simply allowing the teams to rebuild the engines between races would save on durability R&D...