Look who's talking!

[DaveKillens]

In his last few months, the infamous Columbian drug lord, Pablo Escobar had the tables turned on him. His former cronies had declared war on him, and were seeking to kill Pablo and his family. In an interview he had with a member of the press, Pablo pleaded that the methods and tactics of those who were trying to hunt his family down for execution were unfair, and unacceptable conduct. Sad part is, this was stock and trade of Pablo when he ruled with an iron fist. Anyone who crossed him not only died, but their familes too.
It's rather a sad state of human affairs when those who themselves attain power through any method they choose suddenly find that the same tactic may be used against them. Shock, horror, and the realization of how unethical and improper it is to use such methods.

Maybe all this crap coming out of Braun's mouth is just mind games, a set-up for devious tactics, and although inappropriate for any team to do this, it's still unbelievable that a bunch of people who made their personal fortunes by accepting such methods would protest.

Absolutely, freaking, mind-blowing and amazing that any member of Ferrari could speak against using team tactics.

And just who made them kings to sudddenly dictate what was acceptable and not? The sheer arrogance and pathetic playing to the press has thrown this wonderful team, this machine of winning, into a camp of whiners and losers in the game of life.
The may have more money than I can ever imagine, but they sure do not have any respect from me.

[Ted68]

I thought the same thing when I read that Ferrari grumbled about Fisi's blocking. What did they pay Ruebens for? Wasn't it the same thing?

That is strange to hear about Pablo, I thought they killed him a long time ago. Either way, a strong paralel you draw there.

[pRo]

I didnt expect that you would actualy admit the fact that Renault (and other teams as well) pulled questionable tactics, and consider them as expected. Thats what I understand from your post. Am I correct?

I may be against Ferrari, but I'm not stupid. Of course I expect everyone to practice questionable tactics whenever possible. Even Renault. Especially Renault, now that they are fighting for the championships. They would be stupid, if they didn't try to bend the rules as much as they can. I was surprised Fisi didn't take Schumi out, cause he had every possible excuse to do it as a racing accident. I expected it. He's just too nice.


Better make this post more me then and say that sometimes FIA bends the rules for Ferrari when they go too far.

[DaveKillens]

Hypocricy ....an expression of agreement that is not supported by real conviction [syn: lip service] 2: insincerity by virtue of pretending to have qualities or beliefs that you do not really have

affectation, bad faith*, bigotry, cant, casuistry, chewing gum, chicken, crocodile tears, deceit, deception, dishonesty, display, dissembling, dissimulation, double-dealing, duplicity, false profession, falsity, fraud, glibness, goop, hooey, imposture, insincerity, irreverence, lie, lip service*, mockery, pharisaicalness, pharisaism, phoniness, pietism, pretense, quackery, sanctimoniousness, sanctimony, sham, soft soap, speciousness, spinach, sweet talk, two-facedness, unctuousness

ambidexterity, ambidextrousness, artifice, cheating, chicane, chicanery, cozening, craft, craftiness, cunning, deceitfulness, deception, defrauding, dirty dealing*, dirty pool*, dishonesty, dissemblance, dissimulation, double-dealing, duplicity, entrapping, fraud, fraudulence, guile, hypocrisy, imposition, overreaching, pretence, slyness, trapping, treachery, trickery, two-facedness*, two-timing*, underhandedness

bamboozlement, beguilement, betrayal, blarney*, boondoggle*, cheat, circumvention, cozenage, craftiness, cunning, deceit, deceitfulness, deceptiveness, defraudation, dirt, disinformation, dissimulation, double-dealing, duplicity, equivocation, falsehood, flimflam*, fraud, fraudulence, guile, gyp, hokum*, hypocrisy, imposition, insincerity, juggling, legerdemain, lying, mendacity, pretense, prevarication, snow job*, sophism, treachery, treason, trickery, trickiness, trumpery, untruth
bad faith, cheating, chicane, chicanery, deceit, deception, dishonesty, duplicity, foul play*, fourberie, fraud, hypocrisy, mendacity, perfidy, sharp practice*, treachery, trickery, two-timing*

Judas kiss*, artifice, chicanery, cunning, deceit, dirty dealing*, dirty pool*, dirty trick, dirty work*, dishonesty, dissemblance, dissimulation, double-dealing, dualism, duality, faithlessness, falsehood, fraud, gamesmanship, guile, hypocrisy, one-upmanship, perfidiousness, perfidy, skullduggery, treacherousness, treachery, two-facedness*, two-ness
canard, cheating, deceit, deception, deceptiveness, disingenuousness, double-dealing, duplicity, erroneousness, error, faithlessness, fake, fallacy, falsehood, fib, fraud, fraudulence, hypocrisy, inaccuracy, infidelity, insincerity, lie, mendacity, misrepresentation, perfidiousness, perfidy, prevarication, sham, story, tale, treachery, uncandidness, unfaithfulness, unreality, untruth

artifice, cheating, con, craftiness, dissimulation, fraud, hanky-panky, hoax, hocus-pocus*, hypocrisy, illusion, imposture, stratagem, trick, trickery
hollow words, hypocrisy, hypocritical respect, insincerity, jive, lie, lip devotion, lip homage, lip praise, lip reverence, lip worship, mouth honor, mouthing, sham, smooth talk, sweet talk, tokenism, tongue in cheek, unctuousness

airs, big talk*, charade, conceit, disguise, fake*, false front*, front, hypocrisy, ostentation, phony, pomposity, pretentiousness, put on, self-importance, show, showboat*, showiness, showoff, snobbery, splash*, tall talk, vainglory, vanity

bunco, burlesque, caricature, cheat, counterfeit, cover-up, deceit, deception, facade, fake, fakery, false front, farce, feint, flimflam*, forgery, fraud, hypocrisy, hypocriticalness, imitation, impostor, imposture, jive*, mock, mockery, pharisaism, phony, pretender, pretense, pretext, pseud, put-on, sell, shuck, smoke*, snow job*, spoof, travesty, trick, whitewash

[manchild]

It is something I know we were involved in a few years ago and it was considered to be normal practice then, but it has been deemed to be unacceptable now, so we understand that.

No one in the www (whole wide world) except Ferrari ever considered it to be normal practice. What they did is one of main reasons why Austrian GP promoter fell in financial troubles and lost Grand Prix. That was absolute travesty and the most shameful win in the history of F1.

Ferrari is using team orders for 10 years now. 5 Schumacher's titles wouln't exist without team orders because half of the races he won Irvine, Barichello and Massa could have won if they weren't prevented and now the devil himself - Ross Brown dares to say something like that. Millions obviously can't by any moral.

[Venom]

No one in the www (whole wide world) except Ferrari ever considered it to be normal practice. What they did is one of main reasons why Austrian GP promoter fell in financial troubles and lost Grand Prix. That was absolute travesty and the most shameful win in the history of F1.

I don't quite agree with that because other teams have done that. For example, McLaren. By making Barichello let Michael pass him few meters before chequerd flag was big mistake, they should have done it before and not make it so obvious. But cetainly, Ferrari is not the only team who made team orders.

[manchild]

Listen to Jean Todt!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7FO7GI4QwU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI5Xp7GTJt4

[zenvision]

No one in the www (whole wide world) except Ferrari ever considered it to be normal practice. What they did is one of main reasons why Austrian GP promoter fell in financial troubles and lost Grand Prix. That was absolute travesty and the most shameful win in the history of F1.

Do someone remember the official reason of why it was closed? I really used to like it especially those engine explosions and other small cars with contention. Maybe Mathetitz (sp?) would make an effort to bring it back.

[manchild]

I agree that Mclaren started it first but both of Mclaren drivers had same status and second driver hired to help first driver and obstruct rivals didn't exist as such.

[tpe]

Oh, come on! All of you! Do you want me to believe that the evil Ferrari is the only team in the F1 that had team orders?

Even JORDAN ORDERED Ralf to stay BEHIND Hill in the only 1-2 finnish in teams history. Team orders where in place a lot of years ago. I suppose that there are people that still remember why Ferrari introduced team orders a few decated ago. And what happend when those orders were broken.

Ferrari is not the saint, but NO ONE is a saint. Of course, the British drivers/teams etc rules bla, bla, bla.

You know, I saw again the Adelaida incident. And again, I have the same opinion: Hill could have avoid the accident. But, all the blame was on Schumacher. If Schumacher was British, what would be it's status today? No, I do not want to start a flame war or anything. Just to point out that the PRESS makes a lot from simple daily stories. And it's up to us to believe them or not.

That's all. Please no flame war. Just my opinion.

[captainmorgan]

It's kind of unreasonable to expect that Fisi and Massa won't block if they're in the position to do so. Team orders may be banned but teams still give out the paychecks.

And there are no rules against blocking beyond the passing regulations, so 2nd drivers can control pace as much as they want. I think at this point in the season the championship will be decided by regulations and tires anyway so it's all moot. But to call anything fair in F1 these days is ridiculous

[DaveKillens]

I believe just about all teams at one time or another applied "team orders". But it is a fact Ferrari used this tactic as part and parcel of their strategy to give Schumacher the World's Driving Title. What irks me is the the one team that was the biggest practitioner, and unashamedly so, suddenly publicly make a complete reversal due to the fact that another team is trying to use the same tactic against them.
I really don't think I need to define "hypocrite" again.

[West]

No one in the www (whole wide world) except Ferrari ever considered it to be normal practice. What they did is one of main reasons why Austrian GP promoter fell in financial troubles and lost Grand Prix. That was absolute travesty and the most shameful win in the history of F1.

Do someone remember the official reason of why it was closed? I really used to like it especially those engine explosions and other small cars with contention. Maybe Mathetitz (sp?) would make an effort to bring it back.

He tried to but I think there were noise regulations that were preventing the project from happening. I also believe tobacco regulations were in there too, somebody can correct me on this.

...

Maybe RB is saying this so that Renault may drop its guard?

[manchild]

Oh, come on! All of you! Do you want me to believe that the evil Ferrari is the only team in the F1 that had team orders?

Austrian GP 2002, 11 races to go - Barrichello lets Schuey pass by

Now check this:

1997, Villeneuve is fighting for the title, his teammate is Frentzen

French GP 1997, 9 races to go - Frentzen finishes 2nd Villeneuve 4th

Belgian GP 1997 5 races left to go - Frentzen finishes 3rd Villeneuve 5th

Italian GP 1997, 4 races to go - Frentzen finishes 3rd Villeneuve 5th

In each of those races Sir Frank Williams could have ordered Frentzen to let Villeneuve overtake him but he didn't because Sir Frank Williams isn't a cheater. Not all teams are the same!

[zenvision]

I particularly didn't like their tactics in the past because there weren't any titles up for grabs realistically, and still they ordered Rubens to let past, I'm sure even Yoong would have won a race in that car, let alone Schumi winning a title. Also if they want to do it, do with with a bit of class, not in the last corner for god's sake !