Nose cone, energy absorption and design

[WhiteBlue]

What the USF1 video showed was the basic structure of an aluminum honeycombe between a top and a bottom CFC wall. There seems to be no penetration barrier of steel. So if a tub is penetrated by a sharp object in a T-boneing scenario there will be very little safety outside the side impact structure. The body of the driver can be easily speared through or otherwise exposed to fatal wounds. I know the question was about the nose but my concern applies more to the tub!

[czt]

What the USF1 video showed was the basic structure of an aluminum honeycombe between a top and a bottom CFC wall. There seems to be no penetration barrier of steel. So if a tub is penetrated by a sharp object in a T-boneing scenario there will be very little safety outside the side impact structure. The body of the driver can be easily speared through or otherwise exposed to fatal wounds. I know the question was about the nose but my concern applies more to the tub!

Are you expecting some kind of steel sheet in the side of the chassis then? That's not how its done.

Side impact protection consists of upper and lower impact structures (usually composite tubes) which are located at specific points on the chassis, along with a composite anti-intrusion panel (similar to bullet proof vests) which is again along a specified area of the chassis. Have a read of the regs - its all in there.

[noname]

I know that a metall is less brittle then a composite, and that the energy absorbed should be the area under the graph of the strain-stress behaviour during an impact. Therefor I guess that the yield strength of a composite is very high in order for it to take the requiered energy.. But the biggest pro's for using that kind of material in a formula car is the weight and the flexibility in design..

What I dont know is the purpose of a honeycomb structure in between the composite layers and in what direction its placed. My interest in these questions derives from a project called formula student, where a team build a formula car during a year and then compete against other schools.

We've looked into differents solutions of energy absorbing koncepts. Aluminium honeycomb structures, composites (which been discussed and it seems to me its timeconsuming and requiers a lot of knowledge), and also different foamkoncepts...

fibers (main load carrying component of the composite) have almost linear behavior and so therm "yield" does not apply to them. non-linearities are mainly the effect of fibers-matrix ratio and their interactions.

damage tolerance limits for composites are defined by setting strain limits structure can withstand. there is no ultimate or yield stress as in metals.

I advise to look in "Fundamentals of composites manufacturing. Materials, methods, and applications". really nice book explaining quite a lot regarding composites. not only about manufacturing as title could suggest.

regards

[marcush.]

the penetration barrier would neve be out of steel..
you could do it in Dyneema which is polyethylene fiber .

but looking into this ,i think they are just .. clever:

http://www.gef.es/Congresos/23/PDF/6-5.pdf

[marcush.]

just fell over this one:nose cone crash sim:

http://www.dynamore.de/documents/papers ... B-I-02.pdf

[xpensive]

There are different ways of breaking your nose I guess?

[marcush.]

There are different ways of breaking your nose I guess?

it seems in simulation it does not quite hurt as much...

[xpensive]

There are different ways of breaking your nose I guess?

it seems in simulation it does not quite hurt as much...

So very true marcus, doesn't mess up your shirt nearly as bad either, does it?

[marcush.]

don´t get me wrong but I am quite tough after all those laps on the Nordschleife ,I rarely throw up ,that does not hint at the conditions of my underwear ,unfortunatelly.

edit: only as passenger ,I would not trust my own driving abilities.. or lack of anticipation , to be exact (see USF! thread.. ).

[xpensive]

There is this legend of journalist Max Le Grand sitting besides Ronnie Peterson in his 1972 Ferrari 312P around the Nordschleife.

Having to change underwear was the least of his problems.

[marcush.]

There is this legend of journalist Max Le Grand sitting besides Ronnie Peterson in his 1972 Ferrari 312P around the Nordschleife.

Having to change underwear was the least of his problems.

Honestly speaking I am not that easy to chicken ...and only those who are obviously not on top of their game in driving are able to make me afraid...
But of course looking on the speedo on the approach for Schwalbenschwanz ,for example ,or going towards Schwedenkreuz (!!) when you really have to look a lot earlier for the place (because the place is blind in the direct approach )you sometimes think...oh ---, why am I doing this....
I had the delight of doing some extraordinary laps there ,including my racedriver in the Mercedes sprinter with all Mechanics and of course full opposite lock.. the onkly thing missing was the trailer ... maybe someday...

back to topic...apologies.

[xpensive]

I remember Max Le Grand writing in his own words how it felt in his pants when Ronnie deiberately set up the 312P for a dramatic oversteer just before the karusell.

[marcush.]

I remember Max Le Grand writing in his own words how it felt in his pants when Ronnie deiberately set up the 312P for a dramatic oversteer just before the karusell.

the run up to karussell is not that big an issue..but with a really quick car the Mutkurve(Angstkurve!) definitely is ...which is a full speed left hander between Kesselchen and
Klostertal..watch the chicken movie.. the guy not even has the balls to talk.. [-o<
and lifts ..

http://www.f1movies.com/video/TkKUZE1M4 ... -ring.html