2010 regulation row on £40m budget cap

[jddh1]

Good.....
http://timesonline.typepad.com/formula_ ... r-all.html

Ed Gorman

......
If one good thing comes out of the present crisis in Formula One, it should be the end of the feather-bedding of Ferrari, once and for all. All teams should get their fair share of the financial pot in a transparant manner and no teams shoudld ever be given a secret right of veto over how the sport is governed. If Ferrari do not want to play a fair game, they should go elsewhere which they are threatening to do in any case. The problem with achieving this is that Mosley and Ecclestone have run the sport for years in a double act on the telephone which is largely unaccountable. Until both have them have gone, which is unlikely to happen in the near future, the backroom deals can be expected to continue and the sport will be the poorer for it.

Oh, all you Ferrari haters, give me a break! The deals were offered to Ferrari. Ferrari did not go into the meetings and ask for all the "perks." Do you think BMW or McLaren or others would not take these deals were they offered? Would you not take such deals were you the one running a team? Would you not take a free car if it was given to you?

And let it be known out there that Ed Gorman is a known Ferrari hater so take his comments with a bit of salt.

[gridwalker]

Good.....
http://timesonline.typepad.com/formula_ ... r-all.html

Ed Gorman

......
If one good thing comes out of the present crisis in Formula One, it should be the end of the feather-bedding of Ferrari, once and for all. All teams should get their fair share of the financial pot in a transparant manner and no teams shoudld ever be given a secret right of veto over how the sport is governed. If Ferrari do not want to play a fair game, they should go elsewhere which they are threatening to do in any case. The problem with achieving this is that Mosley and Ecclestone have run the sport for years in a double act on the telephone which is largely unaccountable. Until both have them have gone, which is unlikely to happen in the near future, the backroom deals can be expected to continue and the sport will be the poorer for it.

Oh, all you Ferrari haters, give me a break! The deals were offered to Ferrari. Ferrari did not go into the meetings and ask for all the "perks." Do you think BMW or McLaren would not take this deals were they offered? Would you not take such deals were you be running a team? Would you not take a free car was it give to you?

And let it be known out there that Ed Gorman is a known Ferrari hater so take his comments with a bit of salt.

If I was in that position as a team manager and business man, I'd certainly have to consider what was being offered ...

As a fan of what is supposed to be a SPORT, I am of the opinion that different rules and conditions applying to different teams is antithetical to what sport is supposed to be about! As I said, if there was no perceptible bias towards Ferrari then I wouldn't have an issue with them.

It's not Ferrari that I hate, but the mockery of sporting values that has been created in their favour.

Isn't more than a little hypocritical to complain about a two tier system in F1 after having enjoyed a sustained period where the system was rigged in their favour?

[chrys]

Do you think BMW or McLaren or others would not take these deals were they offered? ....

But have offered a Ferrari! Why not BMW and the McLaren? And can they have refused? And can were are assured that the Ferrari will not refuse?

[timbo]

can were are

Quite a clever construction)))

Anyway...

All teams should get their fair share of the financial pot in a transparant manner and no teams shoudld ever be given a secret right of veto over how the sport is governed.

So, you are sure that with new regulation there would be more transparency and less controversy? Very unlikely.
Secret right to veto... So name cases when it was used? Ferrari was given that right in exchange of it staying in F1, fair business, ain't it? If you ask a girl to marry you, you should show some commitment?

[Conceptual]

When Ferrari's whole hissy fit is about a "Two-tiered series", it kind of makes them a bit hypocritical when you think of how long it has been "two-tiered" with the special, secret privelages...

Ferrari do not want honest and honorable competition, period.

So they cry.

I say, let them cry.

[timbo]

When Ferrari's whole hissy fit is about a "Two-tiered series", it kind of makes them a bit hypocritical when you think of how long it has been "two-tiered" with the special, secret privelages...

Oh yeah... What exactly special, secret privileges? Having best driver and racing director? Seeing how Honda turned to a winning team do you think they needed more?

[jddh1]

It's not Ferrari that I hate, but the mockery of sporting values that has been created in their favour.

And how's that Ferrari's fault? Max did not have to offer anything to Ferrari.
Besides, if an old friend of mine offers a huge dinner on him/her because we've been friends for so long and he just wants to do it, I'll surely thank them and take him/her up on the offer.

[jddh1]

When Ferrari's whole hissy fit is about a "Two-tiered series", it kind of makes them a bit hypocritical when you think of how long it has been "two-tiered" with the special, secret privelages...

Oh yeah... What exactly special, secret privileges? Having best driver and racing director? Seeing how Honda turned to a winning team do you think they needed more?

Well said, timbo. Gridwalker, your comment below deserves the above answer as well.

Isn't more than a little hypocritical to complain about a two tier system in F1 after having enjoyed a sustained period where the system was rigged in their favour?

[andartop]

Here we go again with Elvis and the Yeti conspiring to help Ferrari win and blaming everything that is wrong in F1 to the Big Bad Red Threat (sounds kinda like Communism during the cold war)..

When Williams use aerospace technology and silicon valley super-chips it's technological brilliance!
When Honda uses secret reservoirs as ballast it's cunning!
When McLaren steal and lie it's all a set-up!
When Toyota use flexible wings it's an error in the factory machinery!
When Brawn GP, Williams and Toyota use DDDs it's design excellence!

When Ferrari dare do anything other than lose it's CHEATING, OUTSPENDING and FIA FAVOURITISM!



Grow up people! Think!

Welcome to the world.
It's a place full of cheaters and thieves, and it's always been like that. It only matters if you get caught!

[gridwalker]

Here we go again with Elvis and the Yeti conspiring to help Ferrari win and blaming everything that is wrong in F1 to the Big Bad Red Threat (sounds kinda like Communism during the cold war)..

When Williams use aerospace technology and silicon valley super-chips it's technological brilliance!
When Honda uses secret reservoirs as ballast it's cunning!
When McLaren steal and lie it's all a set-up!
When Toyota use flexible wings it's an error in the factory machinery!
When Brawn GP, Williams and Toyota use DDDs it's design excellence!

When Ferrari dare do anything other than lose it's CHEATING, OUTSPENDING and FIA FAVOURITISM!



Grow up people! Think!

Welcome to the world.
It's a place full of cheaters and thieves, and it's always been like that. It only matters if you get caught!

Ok ... so ... quick question : If I loathe Ferrari so blindly, why is there a picture of one in my signature?

I'm not a McLaren fan after the "spygate" scenario (the team's public image always seemed a bit too clinical for my taste anyway) and the Honda fuel pump issue wasn't something that could be explained as misinterpreting the rules. They were cheating & got caught, disappointing me massively as I happened to be wearing their livery at the time. I never thought that Honda had a leg to stand on, as the rules clearly stated a minimum weight with all fluids drained.

Toyota weren't the only team to be using flexible wings; protests were lodged & the scrutineering rules were adjusted accordingly - end of story.

The DDD teams exploited a loophole, which was subsequently deemed to be legal. There was an argument about their interpretation of the regulations, but they were still operating within the same system of rules that covered all teams - nobody had any kind of veto over the court's operation.

As for Williams, I fail to see how their use of legal technology is comparable to accusations of collusion with the governing body.

Bernie Ecclestone has even gone on record to say that he'd bought Ferrari's loyalty!

So ... what about the sudden intervention against Renault's mass dampers? I cannot understand how they could be classified as movable aerodynamic devices whilst being housed internally, when Ferrari's innovative front wheel farings (which are on the unsprung part of the car & in direct contact with the airflow) got away scott free!

It seems strange how a device that had been in use for most of the season was suddenly deemed illegal at a cruical moment in the championship. How can it suddenly be banned without invalidating every previous result that year?

Maybe the decision wasn't made in Ferrari's favour (even though it's effect favoured Ferrari), but details of secret agreements dating back to that period just add fuel to the flames.

The same goes for the sudden redefinition of dimensions allowed for Michelin front tyres, at a time when Ferrari and the other Bridgestone runners were being left behind.

These are just two of the technical decisions that were swung in Ferrari's favour, whether deliberately or not, and I won't start on the sporting decisions that seemed suspect.

I really don't care if Ferrari stay or go, but they should at least be seen as being treated like every other team ...

I don't blame Ferrari for taking an advantage that was handed to them, but you can't expect me to LIKE them for it!

[Giblet]

When Williams use aerospace technology and silicon valley super-chips it's technological brilliance!
No - It was advancement, and they were smart in being first. They were one of the first to bring the computer to the race car in a meaningful way. It was a brilliantly technical move, however I don't know if it was technically brilliant.

When Honda uses secret reservoirs as ballast it's cunning!
No - This was blatant cheating, and they were caught, and punished publicly.

When McLaren steal and lie it's all a set-up!
No - It just turns out that espionage was common place and one Ferrari employee and one Mclaren employee were bad and punished. A Mclaren employee received technical documents from a Ferrari employee.

When Toyota use flexible wings it's an error in the factory machinery!
No - It doesn't matter the reason, and if their wings were so borderline, then they were pushing the boundaries.

When Brawn GP, Williams and Toyota use DDDs it's design excellence!
Yes - just like when Colin Chapman or Gordon Murray would come up with oddball genius ideas they read the rules better, and know there is no such thing as spirit of the rules, and all have reaped some rewards.

When Ferrari dare do anything other than lose it's CHEATING, OUTSPENDING and FIA FAVOURITISM!
No - But they are favored. They get a special payment, they do spend a lot, and the FIA seems to miss punishing them quite often, compared to say, Mclaren and Reanault.

[andartop]

..I never said Ferrari never cheated.

I just keep saying again and again that it seems to me reasonable to assume EVERYBODY cheats in F1 given half a chance, and a bit hypocritical - if not tedious - of SOME people (and I honestly did not have you in mind when posting gridwalker!) to pretend they're so shocked (oh, dear!) every time they hear a new conspiracy scenario revolving around the red team, while at the same time whistling happy tunes and staring at the clouds whenever any other team/driver goes ape.

It may be politics behind closed doors for some, sending actual spies over to a rival's factory for others, "bending" of the rules, deliberately "forgetting" to tell the truth about racing incidents when asked by stewards, designing "smart" grooved tires that become slicks after a few laps, flexible aero, hidden fuel tanks, hidden TC, ABS, ESP, crashing on your only title rival when enjoying a points advantage in the last race of the season (at least make sure you DO take him out!!! - sigh - ), throwing a little bit of gravel on the racing line during quali to secure pole, on-track "bullying", suddenly "lifting-off" at the main straight during a tropical thunderstorm, whatever... you get the picture!

I wouldn't wear any team's liveries if you ask me.. I'm just in it for the show, they're in it for the money!

[gridwalker]

I wouldn't wear any team's liveries if you ask me.. I'm just in it for the show, they're in it for the money!

I wouldn't usually buy team gear, but I got stuck without a jacket or hat in a thunderstorm at the Goodwood Festival of Speed ... Everything was massively overpriced & Jenson's merchandise was the only stuff I could see myself wearing away from the circuit so I could get my money's worth out of it

[gridwalker]

If you ask a girl to marry you, you should show some commitment?

What about the other teams who are being asked to compete?

To use your analogy, it's a bit like a bigamist saying "I'll marry you, but that's my favourite wife over there. She'll get all of the sex, but you can still have free room and board."

[timbo]

To use your analogy, it's a bit like a bigamist saying "I'll marry you, but that's my favourite wife over there. She'll get all of the sex, but you can still have free room and board."

And that exactly how it was from MM and BE point of view.
BTW other wives seem to not care. No single team manager made a fuss about what BE said.
It's just MM thinks he can do good without his favorite wife, smartest wife, French wife and fattest wife.
Yeah, and if you recall mass-dampers ban, look at Australia 2007 and movable floor. Or 2005 and IR tire ovens.
You know, it's endless story.