Italian GP 2009 - Monza

[xpensive]

I agree. Though hopefully with the refuelling ban for next year we'll get to see a bit more overtaking, as cars which qualify high up with good performance in light qualifying trim, may not be as quick when laden in race trim compared some others behind them. Also differences in efficiency may lead to different fuel weights and therefore another differentiator. Though this is probably all wishful thinking.

If lapping counts as overtaking, you will see plenty of that next year with three new "cannon-fodder" teams on the grid. First races are gonna be a mess.

[Whilhelm]

3rd is a lot better than not finishing at all. Hamilton could have kept it on the road if he just calmed down and realized that there was no chance of him catching Button.

[Super racing]

3rd is a lot better than not finishing at all. Hamilton could have kept it on the road if he just calmed down and realized that there was no chance of him catching Button.

There was a chance, and he did not even have to pass him, just outdrag him out of the parabolica to the start/finish... and he had KERS to help him with that. He was already within 1 second and was catching JB's draft.

Not much of a chance, but a slight one, losing 3rd place for a driver out of WDC contention is not that big a deal.

[Ogami musashi]

I agree. Though hopefully with the refuelling ban for next year we'll get to see a bit more overtaking, as cars which qualify high up with good performance in light qualifying trim, may not be as quick when laden in race trim compared some others behind them. Also differences in efficiency may lead to different fuel weights and therefore another differentiator. Though this is probably all wishful thinking.

If lapping counts as overtaking, you will see plenty of that next year with three new "cannon-fodder" teams on the grid. First races are gonna be a mess.

Well, the only hope (realistically) is that in race you have more lap time differences than now, because the problem is, if you stay with the typical lap time differences of .4 seconds average we see this year then it is not enough to overtake.

Now without KERS for all we may see more of the benefits of OWG.

I say again than i do think the OWG did a good job at it shows, this year many variables went into play and kind of alleviated the overtaking plans the two main for me being KERS and lap time differences much smaller than last year (in race, but the bottom line is that i think OWG did not set aggressive enough lap time difference goals. they aimed at 0.5 but that's not enough because as you close in the advantage drops smoothly instead of abruptly. That means you have less and less closing in speed as you go closer to the other car, this kind of prevents you to go as close as you would wish.

[Super racing]

DDD is a much bigger problem than KERS

[Ogami musashi]

There is no scientific proof of that.


Unless you tell me you've run a wind tunnel and/or CFD study to analyse the wake signature.


The fact that KERS prevents a car (non equipped) that got closer to overtake in straight line is theoretically proven.

And the sole fact that lap time difference is a critical parameter for overtaking aero revamp was the basis of the OWG work.

[Scotracer]

DDD is a much bigger problem than KERS

The DDD made no difference. All the teams confirmed it.

[noname]

Not much of a chance, but a slight one, losing 3rd place for a driver out of WDC contention is not that big a deal.

for the driver maybe not but his team is fighting for 3rd place in constructors championships with its arch rival in red cars.

in the last 4 races Kimi alone got 30 points vs. 31 grabbed by silver duo. there are only 4 races left, if guys from Woking are going to change the score it's the right time to stop losing the points.

[Super racing]

DDD is a much bigger problem than KERS

The DDD made no difference. All the teams confirmed it.

nope, just the ones who were defending the DDD in front of the FIA

[adam2007]

DDD is a much bigger problem than KERS

The DDD made no difference. All the teams confirmed it.

nope, just the ones who were defending the DDD in front of the FIA

wind your neck in your new to the forum u dnt know anything about formula one

[ds.raikkonen]

If you're happy with lucky 3rd- good for you. I was afraid Lewis would back off, but he didn't & I'm proud of that.

=D> =D> =D>

[PlatinumZealot]

I guess everybody knows this already...The faster the cars, the smaller the time frame you have for passing. All because the tracks obviously stay the same size (they don't grow with the speed of the cars).. IMO, Bigger, broader, high speed tracks need to be selected/created to improve passing.

[Ogami musashi]

I guess everybody knows this already...The faster the cars, the smaller the time frame you have for passing. All because the tracks obviously stay the same size (they don't grow with the speed of the cars).. IMO, Bigger, broader, high speed tracks need to be selected/created to improve passing.

Speed goes in two ways: You have less time to react BUT when you make a mistake (in the broad sense which includes taking too much time to react) the error has more time/distance impact.

[bhall]

Yeah unlucky on the last lap with the spin out (whatever caused it. not driver error though) but that's what happens when you are that good; the only thing that can stop you is your machine or Nature itself!

Your hero got on the KERS too fast into Lesmos and spun himself into the wall. That is the very definition of a driver error, fanboy.

I mention that because these remarks were the most exiting part of the race. Dull, dull, dull.

But I'm still scratching my head as to why Hamilton, Sutil and Raikkonen didn't go with more aggressive strategies like the cars behind them on the grid. Oh, well. Such is life.

[ringo]

Not much of a chance, but a slight one, losing 3rd place for a driver out of WDC contention is not that big a deal.

for the driver maybe not but his team is fighting for 3rd place in constructors championships with its arch rival in red cars.

in the last 4 races Kimi alone got 30 points vs. 31 grabbed by silver duo. there are only 4 races left, if guys from Woking are going to change the score it's the right time to stop losing the points.

Yes i agree, i am a LH fan and was disappointed in the early pit stop and his last lap, but it was a good show he put on, if he wasn't there the race would be quite boring with sutil trailing behind kimi to the finish.
It was a ballsy drive, he was on the knife edge, he slipped and cut his balls on the knife edge so to speak. It happens.
Mclaren do need the points, i think they can get them in the last set of races if Heiki runs a better race and lewis brings his Hungary mind set into the mix.
All his ballsy races aren't in vain though, its good data to carry over to the next car. Hamilton is the only driver on the track right now this oozes that level of skill and determination almost senna esque, and it should bode well for MP4 25.