2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[atanatizante]

I’m always reminded that there is no guarantee of a fix either, because the issues that caused it to be wrong in the first place (something like correlation) aren’t a given to be fixed.

People don’t design things to be “wrong” from the get go and unless the tools and knowledge on the front end of the design is completely understood, you’ll never fully correct anything.

Three seasons in, and it’s clear Mercedes is having big issues with their modeling, correlation, and engineering prowess. How many times now have we heard that they “fixed it” over the last three seasons?

THIS!
...

Great post. I suspected redbull had the technological edge based on the intricate and almost organically formed shapes on their cars.
This suspicion was reinforced when even after the development penalties they still managed to produce otherworldy cars for 2023 and 2024.
Mercedes need to invest in retooling. This may take them till 2027 to get right.
...

You are too kind to me, Ringo!

I confess that you, Vanja#66, and a few other members oriented to tech details were the main reason (if not the only) that I'm continuing to read this forum, despite the tonnes of hate/bias/OT around this/these threads. I manage this by being selective and reading only those members who are given some real and deep info to us humble fans (as I am) with some technical background.

Now regarding Newey and other technical gurus' future, I think that nowadays they are no more than valuable assets to raise the company's world share market, as Lewis did with Ferrari at the start of the year with the announcement he'll drive for the team from 2025 onwards...

[Joel709]

..according to the information gathered by our editorial staff in recent weeks, the multi-award-winning team, on the sidelines of various meetings between the racing department and top management in Germany, has decided to embrace an epic turning point for the near future. Targeted investments, to re-power the team from top to bottom.

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2024 ... appen.html

I think Newey is going to Ferrari. 3 legends, Newey, Lewis and Ferrari itself.
He has little to gain at career's end with a recent champion like mercedes, and no champion drivers. He also wont be going anywhere Max is, because Jos and Marko will tag along bringing the politics and toxicity.

He’s nearly 70, his time to move to Italy has probably passed. He’s already accomplished so much that I think he’s going to retire. He’s now got a new boat. Also would he even benefit off Hamilton? Red bull won’t allow him to go to a competitor without that gardening leave, the first car influenced by him will likely be mid 2027/2028

[dialtone]

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2024 ... appen.html

I think Newey is going to Ferrari. 3 legends, Newey, Lewis and Ferrari itself.
He has little to gain at career's end with a recent champion like mercedes, and no champion drivers. He also wont be going anywhere Max is, because Jos and Marko will tag along bringing the politics and toxicity.

He’s nearly 70, his time to move to Italy has probably passed. He’s already accomplished so much that I think he’s going to retire. He’s now got a new boat. Also would he even benefit off Hamilton? Red bull won’t allow him to go to a competitor without that gardening leave, the first car influenced by him will likely be mid 2027/2028

You can’t garden leave a contract ending… Binotto was handsomely paid to not go to another team for 1 year.

[Joel709]

I think Newey is going to Ferrari. 3 legends, Newey, Lewis and Ferrari itself.
He has little to gain at career's end with a recent champion like mercedes, and no champion drivers. He also wont be going anywhere Max is, because Jos and Marko will tag along bringing the politics and toxicity.

He’s nearly 70, his time to move to Italy has probably passed. He’s already accomplished so much that I think he’s going to retire. He’s now got a new boat. Also would he even benefit off Hamilton? Red bull won’t allow him to go to a competitor without that gardening leave, the first car influenced by him will likely be mid 2027/2028

You can’t garden leave a contract ending… Binotto was handsomely paid to not go to another team for 1 year.

Binotto was sacked, and everyone is paid to be on garden leave, it’s a way for companies not to allow transfer of recent information

[dialtone]

He’s nearly 70, his time to move to Italy has probably passed. He’s already accomplished so much that I think he’s going to retire. He’s now got a new boat. Also would he even benefit off Hamilton? Red bull won’t allow him to go to a competitor without that gardening leave, the first car influenced by him will likely be mid 2027/2028

You can’t garden leave a contract ending… Binotto was handsomely paid to not go to another team for 1 year.

Binotto was sacked, and everyone is paid to be on garden leave, it’s a way for companies not to allow transfer of recent information

I think we can contain this discussion in one place only right?

Letting a contract expire and sacking someone are the same thing.

[Dunlay]

You can’t garden leave a contract ending… Binotto was handsomely paid to not go to another team for 1 year.

Binotto was sacked, and everyone is paid to be on garden leave, it’s a way for companies not to allow transfer of recent information

I think we can contain this discussion in one place only right?

Letting a contract expire and sacking someone are the same thing.

You can have a clause of Gardening leave kicking in at the completion of the contract too. It's all about how the contract is structured and how the pay structure is tied. If mutually both parties agree to continue, then they override the gardening leave and start a new contract and move the gardening leave once again to end of contract.

[TeamKoolGreen]

Very bold statement to make there.

I don't think Max will have an issue but Jos did over-react after Monaco 2022 for instance, even if Perez did crash intentionally. And also I think people will agree George is a better driver than Sergio, so it is only natural he beats Max more often than Sergio.

Perez has 5 wins with Red Bull. Max has 58.

Its highly questionable that George would beat Max 'often', as the originally quoted post suggests. I would say Perez and George are somewhere on the same level, but they aren't in the same league as Max.

That is a ridiculous statement. Russell won the F2 title in his rookie year. In the strongest F2 field ever that included 2 future #1 drivers in Norris and Albon. He got 7 race wins which is the same amount of wins as Leclerc did in his rookie F2 year that vaulted him to F1. Russell then went on to win a race in his first year in a competitive car. And get 19 top 5's. Sergio Perez isn't even close. He's 2 tiers below Russell at minimum.

Russell is in the same league as Max. Did I say he's better than Max or that he would beat Max ? No.

[dialtone]

.

Russell is in the same league as Max.

Good argument till this. Let’s not overstretch.

[Just_a_fan]

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2024 ... appen.html

I think Newey is going to Ferrari. 3 legends, Newey, Lewis and Ferrari itself.
He has little to gain at career's end with a recent champion like mercedes, and no champion drivers. He also wont be going anywhere Max is, because Jos and Marko will tag along bringing the politics and toxicity.

He’s nearly 70, his time to move to Italy has probably passed. He’s already accomplished so much that I think he’s going to retire. He’s now got a new boat. Also would he even benefit off Hamilton? Red bull won’t allow him to go to a competitor without that gardening leave, the first car influenced by him will likely be mid 2027/2028

He's 65.

[dialtone]

I think Newey is going to Ferrari. 3 legends, Newey, Lewis and Ferrari itself.
He has little to gain at career's end with a recent champion like mercedes, and no champion drivers. He also wont be going anywhere Max is, because Jos and Marko will tag along bringing the politics and toxicity.

He’s nearly 70, his time to move to Italy has probably passed. He’s already accomplished so much that I think he’s going to retire. He’s now got a new boat. Also would he even benefit off Hamilton? Red bull won’t allow him to go to a competitor without that gardening leave, the first car influenced by him will likely be mid 2027/2028

He's 65.

Basically a zombie already, practically dead.


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[Just_a_fan]

Toto doesn't respect lewis
https://twitter.com/sim3744/status/1784169195959415063

Lewis didn't have a monopoly on mercedes titles unlike Schumacher, Vettel and Verstappen for their teams.

Because Lewis was expected to compete against his team mate where the others weren't/aren't.

[ringo]

He’s nearly 70, his time to move to Italy has probably passed. He’s already accomplished so much that I think he’s going to retire. He’s now got a new boat. Also would he even benefit off Hamilton? Red bull won’t allow him to go to a competitor without that gardening leave, the first car influenced by him will likely be mid 2027/2028

He's 65.

Basically a zombie already, practically dead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

65 is the new 45!
In the ferrari threads I read of Rory Bern still guiding Ferrari. I am sure he qualifies as a fossil in your books. He seems to be fitting in well in Italy.
Newey's new boat could be for sailing in Venice.
Also Hamilton doesnt move to a new team unless there is a secrete weapon that gives him a guarantee.
Lauda and Brawn did show him an engine. Otherwise the silver cars Shu and Rosberg struggle to get on the podium could not have convinced Lewis to leave Mclaren.
Maybe what Elkan and Vasseur showed Lewis was Newey's MOU to Join in 2025. There had to be something convincing for Lewis, and i dont think it was Ferrari's 2022 and 2023 form.

[Hammerfist]

I don't think Max will have an issue but Jos did over-react after Monaco 2022 for instance, even if Perez did crash intentionally. And also I think people will agree George is a better driver than Sergio, so it is only natural he beats Max more often than Sergio.

Perez has 5 wins with Red Bull. Max has 58.

Its highly questionable that George would beat Max 'often', as the originally quoted post suggests. I would say Perez and George are somewhere on the same level, but they aren't in the same league as Max.

That is a ridiculous statement. Russell won the F2 title in his rookie year. In the strongest F2 field ever that included 2 future #1 drivers in Norris and Albon. He got 7 race wins which is the same amount of wins as Leclerc did in his rookie F2 year that vaulted him to F1. Russell then went on to win a race in his first year in a competitive car. And get 19 top 5's. Sergio Perez isn't even close. He's 2 tiers below Russell at minimum.

Russell is in the same league as Max. Did I say he's better than Max or that he would beat Max ? No.

With the way toto is stooping so low and is ready to give Max everything he wants and then some to lure him to Merc I wouldn’t be surprised if #1 driver is included in any prospective contract. I believe George can challenge max on pace. Consistency? Not so much. But he almost outqualified max in a williams in wet conditions during that crazy Spa 21 weekend and hes giving hamilton hell on many weekends in quali so i know hes got the pace. Whether he will be allowed to show it is a completely different story.

[dialtone]

He's 65.

Basically a zombie already, practically dead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

65 is the new 45!
In the ferrari threads I read of Rory Bern still guiding Ferrari. I am sure he qualifies as a fossil in your books. He seems to be fitting in well in Italy.
Newey's new boat could be for sailing in Venice.
Also Hamilton doesnt move to a new team unless there is a secrete weapon that gives him a guarantee.
Lauda and Brawn did show him an engine. Otherwise the silver cars Shu and Rosberg struggle to get on the podium could not have convinced Lewis to leave Mclaren.
Maybe what Elkan and Vasseur showed Lewis was Newey's MOU to Join in 2025. There had to be something convincing for Lewis, and i dont think it was Ferrari's 2022 and 2023 form.

I was being sarcastic


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[Joel709]

I think Newey is going to Ferrari. 3 legends, Newey, Lewis and Ferrari itself.
He has little to gain at career's end with a recent champion like mercedes, and no champion drivers. He also wont be going anywhere Max is, because Jos and Marko will tag along bringing the politics and toxicity.

He’s nearly 70, his time to move to Italy has probably passed. He’s already accomplished so much that I think he’s going to retire. He’s now got a new boat. Also would he even benefit off Hamilton? Red bull won’t allow him to go to a competitor without that gardening leave, the first car influenced by him will likely be mid 2027/2028

He's 65.

I’m saying by 2028 he’ll be near 70