2015 Canadian Grand Prix - 5-7 June

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godlameroso
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Re: 2015 Canadian Grand Prix - 5-7 June

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What kind of pace were we seeing in P3? I expect Mercedes to start in the low 1:20's high 1:19's during the race and wind it down to a high to mid 1:18, I don't think they can realistically go faster than that due to fuel limitation. If any other team can keep pace within .3 of the projected Mercedes times they can get them with strategy and superior tire wear. Something no one mentions, I would be worried about mechanical damage to the car from being too rough on the curbs. I think this is what got Mercedes last year.
Interesting comment from Perez on sky, saying this year's car was 0.8s slower than last year's. Ricciardo has also been saying they're only now getting to 2014 levels and Williams initially said it took a long time to claw back the downforce lost because of nose regulation change.

So it implies (to me at least) that the teams who have improved have had to overcome a backwards step to get there. In Ferrari's case, you wonder if already having such a low nose last year meant they felt it less and hence could concentrate on other things.
Maybe because the front of the car has such a large influence in everything else that they basically had to re-learn how air flows downstream. Just now are they learning how to take advantage of it.
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lio007
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Re: 2015 Canadian Grand Prix - 5-7 June

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Last edited by lio007 on 06 Jun 2015, 22:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Juzh
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Re: 2015 Canadian Grand Prix - 5-7 June

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Ok, I haven't seen the video until now, but wtf was vettel thinking there? Like seriously? Overtaking at 300 clicks during red flag period. That's a slam dunk penalty.
Last edited by Juzh on 06 Jun 2015, 22:44, edited 1 time in total.

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FoxHound
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Re: 2015 Canadian Grand Prix - 5-7 June

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Juzh wrote:Merc PU too stronk, as it turns out:
http://www.fia.com/file/29007/download?token=GUJqmG4c
What? Renault 2/3kmh down on the factory Mercedes and it's too strong?
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Juzh
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Re: 2015 Canadian Grand Prix - 5-7 June

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FoxHound wrote:
Juzh wrote:Merc PU too stronk, as it turns out:
http://www.fia.com/file/29007/download?token=GUJqmG4c
What? Renault 2/3kmh down on the factory Mercedes and it's too strong?
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ChrisM40
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Re: 2015 Canadian Grand Prix - 5-7 June

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FoxHound wrote:
Juzh wrote:Merc PU too stronk, as it turns out:
http://www.fia.com/file/29007/download?token=GUJqmG4c
What? Renault 2/3kmh down on the factory Mercedes and it's too strong?
They are probably running a boatload more down force, because they can.

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Jordan44
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Re: 2015 Canadian Grand Prix - 5-7 June

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FoxHound wrote:
Juzh wrote:Merc PU too stronk, as it turns out:
http://www.fia.com/file/29007/download?token=GUJqmG4c
What? Renault 2/3kmh down on the factory Mercedes and it's too strong?
It shows that the speed traps don't mean anything. Not sure why people are obsessed with them when looking at performance.

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Juzh
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Re: 2015 Canadian Grand Prix - 5-7 June

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J0rd4n wrote:
FoxHound wrote:
Juzh wrote:Merc PU too stronk, as it turns out:
http://www.fia.com/file/29007/download?token=GUJqmG4c
What? Renault 2/3kmh down on the factory Mercedes and it's too strong?
It shows that the speed traps don't mean anything. Not sure why people are obsessed with them when looking at performance.
Yeah, just ask mclaren.

Sector speed traps:
http://www.fia.com/file/29005/download?token=8n8HZnsa
It's always mercedes in top spots, followed by ferrari, followed by renault. Those are measurements after a flat out section, unlike some other circuits.

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FoxHound
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Re: 2015 Canadian Grand Prix - 5-7 June

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J0rd4n wrote:
FoxHound wrote:
Juzh wrote:Merc PU too stronk, as it turns out:
http://www.fia.com/file/29007/download?token=GUJqmG4c
What? Renault 2/3kmh down on the factory Mercedes and it's too strong?
It shows that the speed traps don't mean anything. Not sure why people are obsessed with them when looking at performance.
Bingo!

Some people obfuscate matters to attempt to make invalid statements. Each and every race we see this.
Yet, Mercedes dommed Monaco, the least "engine" track of them all.

There is a point to a degree, but not anywhere near what has been portrayed, certainly not as vociferous either.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2015 Canadian Grand Prix - 5-7 June

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I guess you have to throw in the apex speeds into the analysis to really see who has all the downforce and who has all the power.
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FoxHound
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Re: 2015 Canadian Grand Prix - 5-7 June

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PlatinumZealot wrote:I guess you have to throw in the apex speeds into the analysis to really see who has all the downforce and who has all the power.
We are dangerously close to getting somewhere here...
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FoxHound
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Re: 2015 Canadian Grand Prix - 5-7 June

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Even so, it may not throw up certain inequities in the chassis, track to track.
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Jordan44
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Re: 2015 Canadian Grand Prix - 5-7 June

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godlameroso wrote:What kind of pace were we seeing in P3? I expect Mercedes to start in the low 1:20's high 1:19's during the race and wind it down to a high to mid 1:18, I don't think they can realistically go faster than that due to fuel limitation. If any other team can keep pace within .3 of the projected Mercedes times they can get them with strategy and superior tire wear. Something no one mentions, I would be worried about mechanical damage to the car from being too rough on the curbs. I think this is what got Mercedes last year.
Last year, the ERS failed because of overheating, nothing to do with the curbs.

Based on what we've seen so far I don't think any team has superior tyre wear at this circuit. In warm conditions like Malaysia, Ferrari puts less heat into the tyres so doesn't work them as hard, so they do last longer while maintaining a pace advantage. Here, in cooler conditions, Merc put more heat into the tyres and therefore work them better than Ferrari, but they're not overheating because of track temps. Merc can go just as long as Ferrari if not longer. That's exactly what happened in China. Merc got their tyres to last longer than Ferrari there.

drunkf1fan
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Re: 2015 Canadian Grand Prix - 5-7 June

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Drive through penalty means he's taking at least an 11 place grid penalty doesn't it? I had read he was taking a 5th mgu-h which would be a 10 place grid penalty which should only be a 10 second penalty. So he must have taken an extra 5 or 10 places on top of that with more 5th engine parts. As the only other 5th part he was on was the TC I presume he has a 15 place grid penalty.

It's a bit ridiculous, wait months to update/improve the mgu-h/turbo. Take only a new mgu-h/turbo and they both died within three sessions and even then they missed half of FP2 due to rain and, was it Button who didn't get out for ages in FP1 or was that Alonso. Either way, for a team desperate for reliability to have the new updates die so quickly it's not a good sign.

I'm also led to believe Button will be starting back of the grid. With penalties it's usually he who has penalties applied last ends up at the back. Vettel maybe officially had his penalty applied last though it was for a practice session... so. Who knows. I think those who actually take part in qualifying should get an advantage on those who don't. Ves, Vettel, Button at the back of the grid is my guess.

I could but won't change my guess. FIA put up provisional starting grid already, Vettel 18th, Verstappen 19th, Button 20th they are saying.

EDIT:- Verstappen has a 10 second time penalty for having 8 places of his penalty not applied. The way they've worded it they are saying he has 8 places left to serve so a 10 second penalty. But he only has 8 places left instead of 7 because he's starting in 19th as a result of Button having a penalty. Imagine if he qualified 10th, if he started in 20th he would have a 5 second penalty but because Button's penalty promotes him to 19th he would receive a 10 second penalty. That is a pretty ridiculous way to see the situation. Surely it's fair enough to say Verstappen takes a 8 place grid penalty to 20th, 7 left over, then consider Button's penalty.
Last edited by drunkf1fan on 07 Jun 2015, 01:27, edited 1 time in total.