2018 Azerbaijan GP - Verstappen, Ricciardo clash

[Edax]

Good post Phil.

I would like to add something NathanOlder said some days ago;

Max hasn’t got any experience like others- for example Hamilton- in junior series.

It’s a valid point Nathan made there, because lets not forget as well; Max is learning to drive Formula cars in F1.. not in several junior series like others have before him.

Only one year in F3.

Perhaps too soon, perhaps not- but Marko saw something.. and the rest is history.

Very true, when Vettel was that age he was crashing his car trying to race Kubica to the pits without a front wing. I guess some things only can develop with age and experience.

He is fast and makes very little unforced mistakes, it is only under pressure that he loses his patience. If he learns to control that then I think he can fullfill the promise many see in them. Many drivers went though a period like this. How many people were not saying that Hamilton had no business on a racetrack when he was crashing into everything and everyone.

Then again it might stay like this. You can be 99% perfect during a race but the descision you make in that 1% makes the difference between a podium or a DNF . Plenty of drivers which had great promise but never got that final 1% right, Montoya comes to mind.

In any way I think RB should be patient. I bet McLaren still sometimes regrets ditching Perez based on a few incidents, before he could develop his potential.

[djos]

I don't think Max was promoted to early, he deserves to be in F1 - however RedBull need to manage him better and refusing to apportion the majority of blame to him for the Baku crash won't help him mature in the sport.

[J.A.W.]

But to say he’s crashing every two races just because he had a hard season start? That’s a bridge too far for me, he has to change but he didn’t suddenly become some kind of crasher

I said every two GPs, not races wich is different, and if you analyse 2018, he actually crash more than once each two GPs

So does Marquez..
Some riders/drivers are more on the edge then others- I guess?

Marquez is already a multiple World Champ, & he's leading this year..
He also does very well to 'save' crashes, & avoid damage/injury, quite adeptly..

M.M. is pretty cool/analytical - in his approach to racing - even when going hard-out, & keeps his cool off-track, too..
Max would, IMO - do well to emulate M.M. - if he could.

[J.A.W.]

This is actually the topic to talk about the crash between Ver AND Ric. Not the Ver has crashed a lot topic. It was specifically opened to talks about that.

Max crashing forms a pattern.. & this season is surely his worst so far, with his most recent DNF, the worst yet..
Do you see how this is trending?

Surely, it is to be hoped, that this topical furore.. may even check the flow - of Max crashing, no?

[Phil]

I don't think Max was promoted to early, he deserves to be in F1 - however RedBull need to manage him better and refusing to apportion the majority of blame to him for the Baku crash won't help him mature in the sport.

In my opinion, the way he is/has been managed is precisely where he gets his quality from. If you unsharpen the knife, you're taking some of its edge away too. He's been groomed very early into believing he has what it takes to becoming a WDC. In fact, this year may be the very first year he is finally driving what could be a true WDC contender.

His only problem is, that he is not only driving against Vettel and Hamilton, but also against a team-mate who is driving at his best and making very few mistakes. For Dan too, this year is very important - who he signs for will have a large impact on his career. Right now, his focus is to be beating his team-mate and raising his profile. Arguably. he has been doing a very good job since the beginning of the season and IMO some of the mistakes Max has been making stem of impatience and a bit of frustration.

[Andres125sx]

So does Marquez..
Some riders/drivers are more on the edge then others- I guess?

Yes both are aggressive drivers/riders, but Marquez DNF one of four, while Max DNF two of four. Marquez lead his championship while Max is below his team mate, one McLaren and one Renault (ignoring the faster cars), so not that both situations are comparable I guess

Actually it´s a good comparison about how aggressiveness can be good if you know how and when to apply it, or bad if you don´t

My apologies, I thought you said GP’s- not races.

Marquez is indeed a true champion, no doubt! But lets not forget the couple of incidents he had in Argentina this year.

https://youtu.be/ixGVrtDrhrs

Yes, but he leads the championship, if you can´t see the difference then I´m sorry for you. I said RBR may get tired of him at some point because he´s loosing a lot of points and championships positions, if he would be leading there would be no problems at all obviously

Anycase, as I said you when you derailed the thread talking about Senna, Prost, etc., anything any other driver/rider did in the past is irrelevant to this discusion

[Andres125sx]

Max is still young. Very young. Much of his speed and potential comes from the fact that he pretty much races fearless, without hesitation and with a sense of entitlement. Attributes that the best have in them. That includes Schumacher, Senna, even Hamilton and others.

On one hand, this makes him perhaps dangerous, prone to errors, crashing too, but it also makes him fast.

Dislike him or not, but you have to admire his confidence. He crashed in Baku FP1, but no sooner was he back in the car and he was already kissing the walls again, driving at and over the limit, when perhaps other drivers would have suffered, driven more careful, but at the expense of outright speed and confidence. Not Max. He’s been involved in more crashes and incidents than any other driver this season so far, yet he still lost no fraction of the determination and ruthlesness that makes him who he is.

At some point, every driver matures up. They learn to play the “long game”, choose their battles more wisely, commit to calculated risks when potential reward outweighs potential loss. Hamilton has learned that, needed to, especially in 2014 when finding himself in a championship winning car and behind his sole contending team-mate. Compare that to 2011 when Hamilton was involved in numerous incidents.

Max will too, but right now, his unrelenting self belief and little consideration for others on track is what gives him his edge and speed. Enjoy it while it lasts. He is driving right now like someone who has little to lose and all to gain. Dangerous, yes, but fast too. Over time he will lose some of that edge. They all do, eventually, but what will be lost there will be gained in maturity and experience.

I´ve bolded the key part of all of this discussion, if he continue like this we won´t enjoy him for too long, and that would be a pity

RBR did a risky bet with someone so young, they should know someone that young will need to be tamed down, but they´re doing the opposite

[hemichromis]

This is interesting if true:


https://www.instagram.com/p/BiRR2Tulk1S ... e=ig_embed


Must find my tinfoil hat.

[Jolle]

This is interesting if true:


https://www.instagram.com/p/BiRR2Tulk1S ... e=ig_embed


Must find my tinfoil hat.

Even if it is true, formula1.com is a site run by the communication/marketing department of Liberty, not the FIA. If you want to know a bit more then "F1 is really really fast and the cars have four wheels" you should skip that site and get your info from fia.com.

[Sieper]

Likely they just added it there as interest about that rule was expected to spike (just like Jolle also said, they put up info for the masses, marketing).

[hemichromis]

Well, I couldn't find my hat. I think the aliens have it.

[DiogoBrand]

I have to say Max Verstappen looks more and more stupid as the weeks go by:
https://youtu.be/ksltiVCIK_4?t=122

Asked if he thinks he should change something:
"Well, it would be stupid to change anything, because it helped me to become a Formula 1 driver in general, win races as well, so after those four races people start talking and they think I should change something, but I don't think I should change anything, because it has worked for me and it will work for me in the future, I just need a bit more of a better run, that's it. So I'll just try again this weekend and hopefully from this weekend on it will a bit better".

Just reminds me of a great motivational phrase I know of:
"When things are going terribly wrong, keep doing the same things and just expect better results from it."
(Said no one intelligent... ever).

[Edax]

This is actually the topic to talk about the crash between Ver AND Ric. Not the Ver has crashed a lot topic. It was specifically opened to talks about that.

Max crashing forms a pattern.. & this season is surely his worst so far, with his most recent DNF, the worst yet..
Do you see how this is trending?

Surely, it is to be hoped, that this topical furore.. may even check the flow - of Max crashing, no?

5 DNF’s due to crashed in three years does not sound like a terrible statistic, or an omnious pattern to me. Or am I missing something?

[strad]

I'm glad that someone posted that, https://www.instagram.com/p/BiRR2Tulk1S ... e=ig_embed, because I thought that was the rule but could not find it when I looked for it.
Had me questioning my memory. They are in fact allowed to move back to the racing line but they are supposed to be careful about doing it.
I say this not to enter into any argument but like I say because I was unsure about my memory of when they clarified in the first place.
My first impression at the time was that Max had made two move then later after thinking about it realized he had the right to move back on line and later realized the it was true that he was in a position where the wings made it so as was stated he became trapped into a position where he lost downforce needed for full braking. I believe at that point Ricciardo was aware of that himself.

[J.A.W.]

This is actually the topic to talk about the crash between Ver AND Ric. Not the Ver has crashed a lot topic. It was specifically opened to talks about that.

Max crashing forms a pattern.. & this season is surely his worst so far, with his most recent DNF, the worst yet..
Do you see how this is trending?

Surely, it is to be hoped, that this topical furore.. may even check the flow - of Max crashing, no?

5 DNF’s due to crashed in three years does not sound like a terrible statistic, or an omnious pattern to me. Or am I missing something?

Yes, Edax, you are missing something..

2016: 1X DNF due to crash..
2017: 2X DNF due to crash..
2018:*2X DNF due to crash..

Pattern shows twice the number of DNF's (due to crash) in 2nd year of F1, & the ^ trend is looking like continuing this season..

Would you take a bet.. that Max will not register another - DNF due to crash - this season?


*50% crash DNF rate - so far!