2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

[InsaneX_Badger]

Wonder if the mods might consider making a specific thread for this discussion about the SC any any future events caused by it soon. Poor mods

[holeindalip]

Conspiracy theories! How about Masi just made a call, right or wrong, some liked it, some didn't, it benefitted one party and not the other.

I'm sure the FIA have done things to encourage competition at the detriment of Mercedes, why wouldn't they, a sport is boring if one team continuously wins. But to say they have purposely made a decision to screw Merc and Hamilton over is ridiculous. Prost and Senna and the bias Prost got was a completely different matter, the FIA was French run and they wanted their French driver to win, at all costs, you could see all decisions benefitted Prost. But that's very very different to the race director making a questionable decision.

Masi made a call that didn’t follow the safety car procedures, it wasn’t just about making a black or white call that benefitted one team or another

Actually, first he made a decision that followed the procedures. Teams got a message that lapped cars will stay where they are before the restart, because otherwise there wouldn’t be time for a proper restart.
Then something changed in the decision room. A phone call, radio contact, bank app alert, sudden wave of spiritual clarity?! He had a combined wtf and go to hell moment, and the rest is history.

Yeah that’s where the rule that the RD could do what he wants opens a door to outside manipulation. Like I’ve stated earlier in this thread vettel was going through turn 1 when Hamilton took off to start the final lap. Those cars didn’t get a chance to race the final lap along with the other cars that were lapped, sainz didn’t get a chance.

[rb88]

I think it’s time for F1 to move on without Mercedes. We saw what happened this year in football when a couple of teams went into powerplay mode, we don’t need that in Motorsport. Toto Wolff has way too much power for way too long now, time to shut him up

We need Merc, Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Williams... all of them in F1. They've all had periods of utter dominance. Come on now.

As far as I can remember none of them ever went into powerplay mode the way Mercedes does now. They protested, it got denied with the rules clearly shuffled down their noses. If they want to go to court: let’s do it. They will lose

You do realize the ultimate powerplay mode is Ferrari, who still has a VETO RIGHT?

[diffuser]

This line literally comes from the sporting regulations. If the regulations mean nothing anyway, then what's the problem last weekend?

I see you're arguing in bad faith . i know it comes from the regulations but track limits has never been regulated for ages now as it should have , that's why i say you keep moving the goalpost to fit your narrative. The fact that you want to compare Bahrain to what happened last Sunday says it all.

What is bad faith about referring to an incident where the race director broke the sporting regulations, if the major argument this weekend has revolved around the racing director breaking the sporting regulations?

It seems quite outrageous to me to essentially say "well, that particular point is consistently broken anyway, so that regulation doesn't matter, the RD can do as they please. But the others are holy and may never be violated". Perhaps the problem with the track limit regulation being broken consistently is, well, that it is being broken consistently which should not happen in the first place.

I agree.

I also think "Drivers must make every reasonable effort to use the track at all times and may not leave the track without a justifiable reason" is stupid too. Why do we need to say "every reasonable effort" or "justifiable reason" ? Both are expressions that require "interpretation". I prefer "Drivers must stay on track at all times or they'll be given a warning. On the 3ird warning the driver will receive a black and white flag." Then yoi go on and list valid reasons for leaving a track. It's crazy how F1 is the only sport that trys to understand the mindset of person committing the crime to justify if he/she deserves it. This is where F1 gets into so much trouble.

[diffuser]

This line literally comes from the sporting regulations. If the regulations mean nothing anyway, then what's the problem last weekend?

I see you're arguing in bad faith . i know it comes from the regulations but track limits has never been regulated for ages now as it should have , that's why i say you keep moving the goalpost to fit your narrative. The fact that you want to compare Bahrain to what happened last Sunday says it all.

What is bad faith about referring to an incident where the race director broke the sporting regulations, if the major argument this weekend has revolved around the racing director breaking the sporting regulations?

It seems quite outrageous to me to essentially say "well, that particular point is consistently broken anyway, so that regulation doesn't matter, the RD can do as they please. But the others are holy and may never be violated". Perhaps the problem with the track limit regulation being broken consistently is, well, that it is being broken consistently which should not happen in the first place.

I agree.

I also think "Drivers must make every reasonable effort to use the track at all times and may not leave the track without a justifiable reason" is stupid too. Why do we need to say "every reasonable effort" or "justifiable reason" ? Both are expressions that require "interpretation". I prefer "Drivers must stay on track at all times or they'll be given a warning. On the 3ird warning the driver will receive a black and white flag." Then yoi go on and list valid reasons for leaving a track. It's crazy how F1 is the only sport that trys to understand the mindset of person committing the crime to justify if he/she deserves it. This is where F1 gets into so much trouble.

[rb88]

So, once again, in your own words, had that rule (and many more) been enforced, we would not be having this conversation??? I am not taking the side of one driver or one team here, just that from one lap to the next there is inconsistency.

The only way to avoid inconsistency is to consistently enforce, or even consistently ignore a rule.
First lap first race to last lap last race.
Is this wrong?

It it's not wrong.i do not disagree with the suggestions you've just put forward in order to have consistency. My issue is that it's disingenuous to equate what happened last Sunday to what happened in Bahrain.

And that’s exactly the whole problem there is. People rooting for Lewis are acting like the season was only Abu Dhabi long. It had a lot more races and over the season Max was just as good and had a lot more misfortune than Lewis had. He was lucky at the right time. Just like Lewis was at Imola, Hungary, Silverstone and Baku (where he didn’t capitalise on, his own fault)

Nobody (well at least not me) isn't saying that Verstappen didn't drive a great season with a lot of bad luck thrown his way, and if he'd be in the lead of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix and won it, that I or others wouldn't have all the peace in the world with it and congratulated him and his team for his efforts - but that's not the discussion. Nor is it right to say Max got lucky - he didn't. The FIA/Masi did not follow their own rules and therefore disadvantaged another competitor - That's what people have a problem with. Imagine it went EXACTLY the other way around - Max leading from Hamilton through turn 1, Hamilton not able to mount any significant challenge, then suddenly this whole SC situation happens and Hamilton wins it on the last lap - I can only imagine Horner's and Marko's faces , they'd literally explode . The whole situation was just disingenuous, and reeks of incompetence at best and a downright conspiracy to let the boy-wonder win at worst.

[PlatinumZealot]

Conspiracy theories! How about Masi just made a call, right or wrong, some liked it, some didn't, it benefitted one party and not the other.

The problem with your theory though, is that Masi did make his call at first, and then for some strange reason made another call that is not even a flip-flop, not even contradictory by the book, he went Pablo Picasso on the rules!

I'm sure the FIA have done things to encourage competition at the detriment of Mercedes, why wouldn't they, a sport is boring if one team continuously wins.

Yes, many technical and sporting examples we have seen over the years. These were made in the written rules and technical directives.

But to say they have purposely made a decision to screw Merc and Hamilton over is ridiculous.

So they did not do it on purpose then? It was done by accident?

Prost and Senna and the bias Prost got was a completely different matter, the FIA was French run and they wanted their French driver to win, at all costs, you could see all decisions benefited Prost. But that's very very different to the race director making a questionable decision.

I heard Bernie Ecclestone saying he was disappointed that Lewis did not retire after reaching 7 championships.

Also we know that the majority of authority figures were "tired of Lewis winning every year, it's getting so boring. It would be great if Max won"

Also some of those authority figures did not like how outspoken Lewis has been last year and this year about their new found contracts.

We also heard some rumours that some people think Toto Wolff thinks he is the most powerful guy in F1, and there are powers that want to bring him back to earth.

So... There are so many political reasons to "humble" Lewis and Toto to bring them back to earth.

Also why I was saying this fiasco is much bigger than Max. Max is just a vehicle.

[holeindalip]

It it's not wrong.i do not disagree with the suggestions you've just put forward in order to have consistency. My issue is that it's disingenuous to equate what happened last Sunday to what happened in Bahrain.

And that’s exactly the whole problem there is. People rooting for Lewis are acting like the season was only Abu Dhabi long. It had a lot more races and over the season Max was just as good and had a lot more misfortune than Lewis had. He was lucky at the right time. Just like Lewis was at Imola, Hungary, Silverstone and Baku (where he didn’t capitalise on, his own fault)

Nobody (well at least not me) isn't saying that Verstappen didn't drive a great season with a lot of bad luck thrown his way, and if he'd be in the lead of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix and won it, that I or others wouldn't have all the peace in the world with it and congratulated him and his team for his efforts - but that's not the discussion. Nor is it right to say Max got lucky - he didn't. The FIA/Masi did not follow their own rules and therefore disadvantaged another competitor - That's what people have a problem with. Imagine it went EXACTLY the other way around - Max leading from Hamilton through turn 1, Hamilton not able to mount any significant challenge, then suddenly this whole SC situation happens and Hamilton wins it on the last lap - I can only imagine Horner's and Marko's faces , they'd literally explode . The whole situation was just disingenuous, and reeks of incompetence at best and a downright conspiracy to let the boy-wonder win at worst.

[f1jcw]

[kenshi_blind]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGq_pYzXsAg ... me=900x900

hahaha

[west52keep64]

More info here:



Aaaand here's the full press release:

https://www.fia.com/news/statement-fia- ... rt-council

[siskue2005]

More info here:



Aaaand here's the full press release:

https://www.fia.com/news/statement-fia- ... rt-council

Can the RD overrule that too?

[Shrieker]

https://www.fia.com/news/statement-fia- ... rt-council

At this point, it's obvious something is gonna change, but it's happening with the benefit of hindsight, and at the cost of the sport itself. What takes real skill and competence is, having the foresight to make changes in anticipation, and prevent these things from happening in the first place.

Ever since Masi took the helm, he has behaved like a really, really, really bad and amateur football ref who was trying to save the day by making another mistake to save face for the previous one.

No wonder it ended in disaster.

[DrDejan]

More info here:



Aaaand here's the full press release:

https://www.fia.com/news/statement-fia- ... rt-council

“…Following the presentation of a report regarding the sequence of events that took place following the incident on Lap 53 of the Grand Prix…”

Does anyone know where to find the report?

[the poster below]

More info here:



Aaaand here's the full press release:

https://www.fia.com/news/statement-fia- ... rt-council

Detailed analysis and clarification = let's figure out how we can get out of this in one piece