British GP 2010 - Silverstone

[WhiteBlue]

WhiteBlue is it not your belief that in that situation Vettel should have yielded? Afterall Sutil was ahead and entitled to follow any line he pleases into the corner. You stated this was your belief when criticising Webber in Turkey for not yielding to Vettel.

Totally different situation here. Sutil was driving into Vettel. They were not team mates and none of them thought the other was under team order. I don't think you are seriously asking this?

[WhiteBlue]

Stuffing your nose into a wedge is not a recipe for a good pass, it's a recipe for an accident. Sutil was ahead and of course was going to turn in, as he was ahead until they bumped. Sutil has defended clumsily before, and a smart racer would think of this.

There was no wedge there until Sutil made it so. In the overhead you could see that they were running parallel up to the corner where Sutil turned in on Vettel. If you are fair you can even see from these pictures that Vettel always was far enough from the inside curb. How can there be a wedge. The tyre smoke btw is from the unloaded inside wheel and Vettel isn't out of control. He makes it nicely around the corner.

It looks like you guys will have to keep your view and I will keep mine as the arguments are exhausted, the evidence is presented and we cannot agree. I'm not going to bicker in such a situation until bad words are spoken. No sense in that.

[myurr]

WhiteBlue is it not your belief that in that situation Vettel should have yielded? Afterall Sutil was ahead and entitled to follow any line he pleases into the corner. You stated this was your belief when criticising Webber in Turkey for not yielding to Vettel.

Totally different situation here. Sutil was driving into Vettel. They were not team mates and none of them thought the other was under team order. I don't think you are seriously asking this?

Actually I am seriously asking this as from my point of view you change your opinion based on which side of events Vettel is on. But we're going to stray way off topic if we're not careful.

[ringo]

WhiteBlue is it not your belief that in that situation Vettel should have yielded? Afterall Sutil was ahead and entitled to follow any line he pleases into the corner. You stated this was your belief when criticising Webber in Turkey for not yielding to Vettel.

Totally different situation here. Sutil was driving into Vettel. They were not team mates and none of them thought the other was under team order. I don't think you are seriously asking this?

so what happened to what Shumacher did to Massa in Cananda, Shumacher was wrong then?

[andrew]

As for Vettel's pass on Sutil, there is nothing wrong with it at all. It was firm but fair and how passing should be done.

It is but you shouldn't collide, leave that sort of racing to the touring car boys.

What collision? The cars were very close but I don't recall any contact. Anyone got any stills or video of this?

[myurr]

What collision? The cars were very close but I don't recall any contact. Anyone got any stills or video of this?

WhiteBlue posted stills in the race thread, there was clear contact with Vettel's front hitting the barge board / sidepod area on Sutil's car.

[andrew]

I was asking in reference to Vettel passing Sutil.

[Giblet]

Stuffing your nose into a wedge is not a recipe for a good pass, it's a recipe for an accident. Sutil was ahead and of course was going to turn in, as he was ahead until they bumped. Sutil has defended clumsily before, and a smart racer would think of this.

There was no wedge there until Sutil made it so. In the overhead you could see that they were running parallel up to the corner where Sutil turned in on Vettel. If you are fair you can even see from these pictures that Vettel always was far enough from the inside curb. How can there be a wedge. The tyre smoke btw is from the unloaded inside wheel and Vettel isn't out of control. He makes it nicely around the corner.

It looks like you guys will have to keep your view and I will keep mine as the arguments are exhausted, the evidence is presented and we cannot agree. I'm not going to bicker in such a situation until bad words are spoken. No sense in that.

I'm not here to bicker with you about this pass, so I'll keep it in a broad sense. Vettel has yet to show passing smarts on any level. Going inside Sutil, who has a history of not leaving room, is a low percentage move.

[Intego]

I can't believe that you guys really mean, what you're saying. You want to see cars passing, but - pleeeeease - not Vettel! And the only ones in this forum who deliver an objectiv and and thoughtful analysis (like WB) are affronted with fanboyism.

It's clear that the Hamilton-Vettel incident in Copse was a normal race/start incident - at the latest as Vettel, Hamilton, and the race stewards did not see any reason for punishment or even didn't notice it.

Vettel did a great job first to catch up the field and then - with a little safety car luck - to pass various cars like Massa, Schumacher, Petrov I think and Sutil. With its straight line advantage of about 10 kph everyone knows how difficult it is to pass the FI (BTW great job), ask Alonso. Before race everyone said you couldn't overtake in Silverstone plus the only way to overtake in F1 was to get into slipstream and then try to get into next corner first. Vettel showed us, yes we can (sorry, corny joke ). OK, he's got the fastest car in the grid but not always during the race.

If Hamilton overtakes - great! Schumacher snaps a chance - unfair (to abstract away from the unclear yellow/green flags). Kobayashi rides like the devil - yeah, that doesn't touch the championship. Vettel overtakes Sutil after nearly ten laps - asshole!

Granted the Sutil-move was brave, but isn't that exactly what we want to see? Do we want to see racers who think "uh, I could make it, should I? But how to make it fair? Dammit, too late!" Isn't it refreshing that the forecasted boring F1 season 2010 doesn't take place? Not in one race (ok, one). Please think about whether you really want to get race results from a round green fair play table.

BTW there are enough better things to discuss about, perhaps the amazing job of MCL who achieved this incredible result after long night work or the resurrection of Williams or the remarkable pace of FI or the decline of Renault or or or ...

Many thanks for your attention.

[myurr]

I was asking in reference to Vettel passing Sutil.

And I was answering in reference to Vettel passing Sutil. Check out WhiteBlue's post one page back.

[andrew]

Didn't see that one. Bit blurry though. The on-board footage from Vettels car would be better. I'm pretty certain that there wasn't any contact anyway. Just a good firm but fair pass.

[Giblet]

Don't think, Google.

It was good racing and I defended my position well against Vettel until the final lap, but then he just seemed to drive into me and I lost the racing line and had to move over. Otherwise I don't think he would have got past me.

[myurr]

I can't believe that you guys really mean, what you're saying. You want to see cars passing, but - pleeeeease - not Vettel! And the only ones in this forum who deliver an objectiv and and thoughtful analysis (like WB) are affronted with fanboyism.

It's clear that the Hamilton-Vettel incident in Copse was a normal race/start incident - at the latest as Vettel, Hamilton, and the race stewards did not see any reason for punishment or even didn't notice it.

Vettel did a great job first to catch up the field and then - with a little safety car luck - to pass various cars like Massa, Schumacher, Petrov I think and Sutil. With its straight line advantage of about 10 kph everyone knows how difficult it is to pass the FI (BTW great job), ask Alonso. Before race everyone said you couldn't overtake in Silverstone plus the only way to overtake in F1 was to get into slipstream and then try to get into next corner first. Vettel showed us, yes we can (sorry, corny joke ). OK, he's got the fastest car in the grid but not always during the race.

If Hamilton overtakes - great! Schumacher snaps a chance - unfair (to abstract away from the unclear yellow/green flags). Kobayashi rides like the devil - yeah, that doesn't touch the championship. Vettel overtakes Sutil after nearly ten laps - asshole!

Granted the Sutil-move was brave, but isn't that exactly what we want to see? Do we want to see racers who think "uh, I could make it, should I? But how to make it fair? Dammit, too late!" Isn't it refreshing that the forecasted boring F1 season 2010 doesn't take place? Not in one race (ok, one). Please think about whether you really want to get race results from a round green fair play table.

BTW there are enough better things to discuss about, perhaps the amazing job of MCL who achieved this incredible result after long night work or the resurrection of Williams or the remarkable pace of FI or the decline of Renault or or or ...

Thank you for your audition.

My problem isn't with Vettel in this instance it's with the inconsistent analysis from his fans. I don't want to pick on WhiteBlue but he is the person I've discussed these incidents with the most making his posts more memorable to me - so apologies in advance WB!

In Turkey WB tried to justify the Webber/Vettel incident as being Webber's fault as 'Vettel was ahead so he could choose to drive any line he wanted.' Other fans lined up on both sides.

Now Vettel gains a place by hitting the middle of another car with his front tyre, and those same posters are blaming the lead driver. WB also criticised Hamilton for the first corner incident with Vettel saying that he was a foot away from the inside of the track at the time so Vettel had left him enough room, whereas again in Turkey Vettel clearly had enough room as he was four or five feet or more away from the edge of the track when he made contact with Webber.

WB also came out with a ridiculous comment that Vettel had passed something like 17 cars on track! Watching the race I saw a whole load of incidents where Vettel got past cars that had either retired or made huge mistakes or pitted or had a penalty, etc. coupled with maybe four true on track overtakes. One of those was his clumsy pass of Sutil - I would probably put that down as a racing incident, but it was clumsy and he shouldn't have hit Sutil.

Both you and WB even comment on Vettel getting past the Force India and how the latter was faster in a straight line, even though the speed trap actually tells a different story. Vettel was actually 2kmph faster than Sutil and the fastest driver in the race in a straight line.

So yes each situation is different, etc. etc. but some of us are criticising is the inconsistency which mysteriously results in a single driver always coming up smelling of roses whilst others are criticised. Some are calling that fanboyism, I can sometimes see why.

Ps. Again sorry WB, this isn't meant as a personal attack on you!

[ell66]

IMO rosbergs move on i think it was buemi was the best overtake of the day.

[bean]

He lost as much time after his right rear got sliced by the front wing of a driver who will remain nameless

Why the veiled attempt to suggest that Hamilton did something wrong? Hamilton got the jump on Vettel (and to some degree Webber) partly because of Vettel's attempted chop on Webber. Hamilton was having to brake to avoid driving in to the back of Webber because Webber was slower than he should have been at that point. Vettel tried to close Webber on the apex of Copse which meant he ended up squeezing Hamilton. Neither Webber nor Hamilton had anywhere to go so Vettel's puncture was not Hamilton's fault. I don't blame Vettel either really although it was his actions that led to it. It was a typical first corner incident and some in here wouldn't mention it were it not for Hamilton being involved. Hamilton would not have sat there thinking "I'll try to puncture Vettel's tyre" because the greater risk was that Hamilton would have lost his front wing. I'm amazed he didn't lose some of it to be honest.

I didn't mention Hamilton's name anywhere so why accuse him? I guess if the cap fits....

978 posts so far and going off the example above they must all be bollocks