Ferrari F138

[diffuser]

Well we have noticed that Sauber is MUCH faster since switching from the Ferrari style exhaust to the RBR style. They should have made the same choices that Sauber made but they didn't.


They're defiantly lacking with acceleration out of slow corners. yet off the start they're probably the best. So that leads me to believe that they're not getting as much out of their rear suspension.

maybe a combination of both?

[Abarth]

Well we have noticed that Sauber is MUCH faster since switching from the Ferrari style exhaust to the RBR style. They should have made the same choices that Sauber made but they didn't.[...]

This seems really strange to me too. Why is that? Of course packaging and hot air flow inside the sidepods dictates the shape at the outside, but me thinks there were enough indications at the end of last year that the RBR and Sauber 2012 solution was worth to think about.
And Sauber was able to do it in the middle of the season, with a restricted budget.

So are there strong technical arguments that prevent(ed) Ferrari to do the same?

[Neno]

Ferrari had problems last year in beggining of season with their exaust style as their first version didnt work and heated up too much tires so they experimented too much and lost time in devoloping car and understanding him (specially with pull-rod). They found around Barcelona GP proper version which who they stick it till rest of season with some minor modification around sidepods for better airflow.

I think Ferrari this year choosed to play safe, choosing already exaust configuration who they know it will work and focus in devoloping car in other areas. This is why they were good in beggining of season. This configuration also worked well with Pirelli tires as it didnt overheat tires, and when tires changed in middle of season they lost their advantage. Also because of same problem they get in problems with devoloping car in other areas, as they needed to understand new tires.

[turbof1]

Ferrari had problems last year in beggining of season with their exaust style as their first version didnt work and heated up too much tires so they experimented too much and lost time in devoloping car and understanding him (specially with pull-rod). They found around Barcelona GP proper version which who they stick it till rest of season with some minor modification around sidepods for better airflow.

I think Ferrari this year choosed to play safe, choosing already exaust configuration who they know it will work and focus in devoloping car in other areas. This is why they were good in beggining of season. This configuration also worked well with Pirelli tires as it didnt overheat tires, and when tires changed in middle of season they lost their advantage. Also because of same problem they get in problems with devoloping car in other areas, as they needed to understand new tires.

Not entirely true. At Barcelona 2012 they went for a sidepod design that didn't involve coanda/semi-coanda usage. Then in Canada they started using a mclaren-like design, by which they stuck to.

The biggest issue for them is that their updates aren't working. For example in Spain they introduced sidepods which got longer at the back. For the next several races they were constantly putting it on and off the car, without having any clue if it brought performance or not. The new tyres didn't pose any problems for them; they got it working. Ferrari simply got stuck with the exact same car since Spain. They just stood still while teams like mercedes and red bull worked on their tyre issues, and I do agree they got some help in that area, so it is normal they aren't competitive anymore.

[Abarth]

The new tires did help some others making work their car as intended. F138 got the most of the tyres already at the beginning of the season, while the others could unlock more potential, even with the 2013 spec tyres, as we saw already after Barcelona.
The F138 doesn't seem to have any development potential without changing diffuser blowing philosophy.
So be it, as we won't see any relevant updates from now on, I think this thread has almost lost it's sense anyway.

[Sevach]

Well we have noticed that Sauber is MUCH faster since switching from the Ferrari style exhaust to the RBR style. They should have made the same choices that Sauber made but they didn't.[...]

This seems really strange to me too. Why is that? Of course packaging and hot air flow inside the sidepods dictates the shape at the outside, but me thinks there were enough indications at the end of last year that the RBR and Sauber 2012 solution was worth to think about.
And Sauber was able to do it in the middle of the season, with a restricted budget.

So are there strong technical arguments that prevent(ed) Ferrari to do the same?

I think the sidepod concept Ferrari adopted since 2012 doesn't go well with the ramps, Ferrari sidepods are boxy up-front (worst flow on the top and around it) while having a lot of room in the coke bottle area, an area which a ramp would interfere greatly.

[Spacepace]

Yeah maybe next year this cooling solution will be an advantage, anybody else's thoughts on this?

[l4mbch0ps]

As far as the great starts go, I suspect this is due to the dual rate rear roll bar.

http://scarbsf1.com/blog1/2011/06/10/fe ... -roll-bar/

Article from 2011.

[turbof1]

Thank you. +1.

So with Domenicali offically given up on this season, what are we still going to expect concerning 2014 pieces tested on the F138? The vertical bits red bull introduced on their FW at Korea seems worthwhile to look into.

[el-Magico]

As far as the great starts go, I suspect this is due to the dual rate rear roll bar.

http://scarbsf1.com/blog1/2011/06/10/fe ... -roll-bar/

Article from 2011.

That was a push rod system..?

[Tim.Wright]

As far as the great starts go, I suspect this is due to the dual rate rear roll bar.

http://scarbsf1.com/blog1/2011/06/10/fe ... -roll-bar/

Article from 2011.

Anti rollbar has no influence on the starts. The start quality will be due to something in either the driver, engine torque management or clutch release management.

[diffuser]

As far as the great starts go, I suspect this is due to the dual rate rear roll bar.

http://scarbsf1.com/blog1/2011/06/10/fe ... -roll-bar/

Article from 2011.

Anti rollbar has no influence on the starts. The start quality will be due to something in either the driver, engine torque management or clutch release management.

agreed it does have some to do with getting power to the ground in corners or atleast reducing roll....


Looking at this picture http://i.imgur.com/4Po0Qik.jpg from monza 2013... It looks like a pullrod rear suspension.

I don't think they run the pushrod rear anymore.

[donskar]

As far as the great starts go, I suspect this is due to the dual rate rear roll bar.

http://scarbsf1.com/blog1/2011/06/10/fe ... -roll-bar/

Article from 2011.

Anti rollbar has no influence on the starts. The start quality will be due to something in either the driver, engine torque management or clutch release management.

Rear suspension geometry can also have an influence, right?

[Tim.Wright]

Rear suspension can affect the launch yes, but things like springs, rubbers and anti squat. The roll bar doesn't do anything when the roll angle of the car is zero like at the start.

[Jersey Tom]

As far as the great starts go, I suspect this is due to the dual rate rear roll bar.

http://scarbsf1.com/blog1/2011/06/10/fe ... -roll-bar/

Article from 2011.

Anti rollbar has no influence on the starts. The start quality will be due to something in either the driver, engine torque management or clutch release management.

I suppose if the start area were bumpy you could lose some traction with rear ARB since it adds rate to single wheel jounce. But F1 tracks tend to be quite smooth in the grand scheme of things...