British GP 2010 - Silverstone

[Paul Oz]

I dont think Hamilton punctured Vettel's tyre. Vettel doesn't know who did either.
I think it happened after he cam back on.
Vettel was ok, but if he controled his emotions and didnt kick out at webber at the start he would have been second and still ahead of webber.
He was very dumb today at the start. I wont blame hamilton for punturing Vettel's tyre, if it did happen, Vettel was all over the place.
What's worse i thought Vettel had settled down after the first off, but he continued to flail about.

Seems everyone is a bit bemused, booth drivers didnt feel anything - but on slow replays u can definitely see something small flick up, and Lewis said he saw a small amount of left wing damage when he got out of the car.... that can only be from contact with vettel i think? Perhaps Mclaren have been sharpening their wings a bit

[WhiteBlue]

You have always been one of those on here claiming the lead driver has every right to follow the racing line and that the overtaking or defending driver should back off to avoid making contact.

No, myurr, I haven't been one of those. And I tell you why. I tend to come to an opinion of individual race incidents and participate in the discussion about them. If I can, I use video or still foto evidence and I consider what other people say about them. I'm actually an believer in the theory that not all race accidents are equal. When all points are heard and evidence discussed I tend to come to a final opinion, which I have done in the Vettel/Sutil case as well. And if at that point no new aspects are presented I try to agree to disagree with those who have a different opinion, because not always a consensus is possible.

If you don't believe me please go to the thread "who owns the racing line" which I created with the sole purpose of having such methodical discussions. I will be more than happy to discuss all my previous opinions of incidents with you there. Feel free to open the discussion there with any of my published opinons which you do not agree with and bring new aspects which I haven't already commented.

[WhiteBlue]

Perhaps Mclaren have been sharpening their wings a bit

Minimum radii on wings are regulated. I would have thought that this fact would prevent McLaren to "sharpen their wings".

[WhiteBlue]

Well well well. Sebs cast off tub and wing and Webber brings it home.

And Vettel was driving Webbers cast off tub.

Vettel concentrates on trying to take out his team mate at the start instead of his own racing line and pays the price.

Q. Was there any contact between you and Vettel on the first lap?
LH: ... when I got out of my car just now I think it looks like there is a little bit of damage at the front left corner of the end plate but I didn't notice it (the contact)...

Q. (Michael Schmidt – AMuS) Mark, how close was it with Sebastian from the start to the first corner...?
MW: At the start? Plenty of room, you could drive a bus down the middle.

I doubt that Vettel tried to take his team mate out, but sure you are entitled to your own opinion. Seb's problem IMO wasn't caused by his racing line but Hamilton's. Seb left him enough room but Lewis took Copse a bit wider than he had to. As I have said, it probably wasn't intentional. They can't see those wings. That's something the FiA should actually mandate IMO.

[marcush.]

you can´t see in your private car as well and still will not drive off the bumpers every other day ,I hope..

Seb was slow of the line and made nothing out of his pole..ohterwise neither Webber
nor Hamilton would have come close...so to debate over pushing or cotanct made is really useless ..where is the point battling for pole if you do not manage to start good enough to make use of this advantage...
to swerve to the right to block p2 is an obvious instinct but he should have known already by then he will not be first in the first corner.so he´d be better off to
keep his line and not use even more momentum what helped hamilton to place himself where he was.

one of the arts of racedriving is not to try to compensate for the mistakes you have done , but try to avoid making mistakes ,and not let the feelings after mistakes take over ..

[Paul Oz]

Perhaps Mclaren have been sharpening their wings a bit

Minimum radii on wings are regulated. I would have thought that this fact would prevent McLaren to "sharpen their wings".

I know mate, hence the confused smilies wasnt meant seriously.
Carbon fibre being filed by a soft 200mph tyre is only going to have one winner eh...

[WhiteBlue]

marcush, actually I'm not doing any close racing with my private car. Other than that a fair point. Seb botched the start and that was the main point. In the end all seem to agree that it was a racing accident.

[Mandrake]

Perhaps Mclaren have been sharpening their wings a bit

Minimum radii on wings are regulated. I would have thought that this fact would prevent McLaren to "sharpen their wings".

I know mate, hence the confused smilies wasnt meant seriously.
Carbon fibre being filed by a soft 200mph tyre is only going to have one winner eh...

What I find interesting is that from my POV the majority of tire shredding incidents involve the McLarens. Maybe it's the way Hamilton sticks his nose into every little gap, I don't know. What I certainly disliked was Whitmarsh's comment after the race on the radio "Great Race, great start, great first corner".
What was so great in that first corner other than the unintentional elimination of one of the strongest cars in the field? The rest was pretty basic..floor it and try to stay close, nothing special I believe.

I would suggest simple endplates with limited possibility to tire shredding. Because I think punctures caused by front wings have risen to an uncomfortable amount from 09 on.

[Paul Oz]

What I find interesting is that from my POV the majority of tire shredding incidents involve the McLarens. Maybe it's the way Hamilton sticks his nose into every little gap, I don't know. What I certainly disliked was Whitmarsh's comment after the race on the radio "Great Race, great start, great first corner".
What was so great in that first corner other than the unintentional elimination of one of the strongest cars in the field? The rest was pretty basic..floor it and try to stay close, nothing special I believe.

I would suggest simple endplates with limited possibility to tire shredding. Because I think punctures caused by front wings have risen to an uncomfortable amount from 09 on.

Was always going to happen with wider front wings eh. But yeah, not sure about the first corner comment from a different perspective - he had to brake a bit hard to avoid webber meaning he lost out on the next corner IMO, and nearly got swamped by Alo.

[Richard]

Great race, a reasonable amount of overtaking and incident, but not so much to be properly controversial.

Nearest bit of controversy was the SC and Kubica retiring meant that Alonso suffered as a result of not giving the place back to Kubica. That was Alsonso's choice for staying out rather than giving way in the following corner.

Overall, its turning into a wonderful tortoise & hare season. McL binned their upgrade and came out top when you'd expect a team would be in disarray in those circumstances.

Ferrari appear to have an improving car, but luck is not falling their way. Although I thought the success of a winning teams was to manage risk so luck fell their way? Not sure they could have avoided the punctures for Massa and Alsono?

Renault are improving and only luck is preventing Kubica from mixing with McL and Ferrari in chasing Red Bull. Who'd have thought that last season?

Mid field is looking good too. Williams are making progress, and Mercedes continue to provide us with drama as a front of pack team with Rosberg but firmly in mid field with Schumi.

The back of the field is finding its own pecking order (including a red car in the last couple of races!)

Turning into a lovely close fought season, many teams and drivers will have to keep pushing right to the end of the season to protect their position in the order, and protect their pride.

[Shaddock]

You have always been one of those on here claiming the lead driver has every right to follow the racing line and that the overtaking or defending driver should back off to avoid making contact.

No, myurr, I haven't been one of those. And I tell you why. I tend to come to an opinion of individual race incidents and participate in the discussion about them. If I can, I use video or still foto evidence and I consider what other people say about them. I'm actually an believer in the theory that not all race accidents are equal. When all points are heard and evidence discussed I tend to come to a final opinion, which I have done in the Vettel/Sutil case as well. And if at that point no new aspects are presented I try to agree to disagree with those who have a different opinion, because not always a consensus is possible.

If you don't believe me please go to the thread "who owns the racing line" which I created with the sole purpose of having such methodical discussions. I will be more than happy to discuss all my previous opinions of incidents with you there. Feel free to open the discussion there with any of my published opinons which you do not agree with and bring new aspects which I haven't already commented.

Talking to a colleague in the office who spent (£700 - ouch!) £350 a ticket for a grandstand view of the loop (and didn't buy ear plugs and is now deaf/ringing in one ear) about the incident with SV & AS.

His opinion was that SV T-boned Sutil, and it was a fairly big collision, with lots of carbon fibre on the track afterwards and quite a bit of damage to AS car.

The crowd were cheering SV at the end of the race in their appreciation of his efforts

[Pup]

Meh. I still didn't see anything special. I saw a punk in a dominant car, on the track on which his car is most dominant, make a bloody mess of his race and then make not-quite-the-most out of a lucky a safety car. To be honest, apart from his early wet race at Monza, I've yet to see anything from him half as impressive as Alonso, Hamilton, or Kimi. The simple fact that he's being beaten by an over-the-hill, mistake-prone teammate shows just how overrated he is, and just how dominant of a car he's driving.

[WhiteBlue]

Pup, you may not be aware that punk is often extremely peirorative.

Main Entry: 1punk
Pronunciation: \ˈpəŋk\
Function: noun
Etymology: origin unknown
Date: 1596
1 archaic : prostitute
2 [probably partly from 3punk] : nonsense, foolishness
3 a : a young inexperienced person : beginner, novice; especially : a young man b : a usually petty gangster, hoodlum, or ruffian c slang : a young man used as a homosexual partner especially in a prison
4 a : punk rock b : a punk rock musician c : one who affects punk styles

You may have had 3a in mind. But calling Vettel a petty gangster, hoodlum, ruffian, homosexual partner in prison or a prostitute could also be understood by this particular moniker.

[ISLAMATRON]

Yes WB, punk B*tch would be much better at describing Vettel

His swerve towards MW was dangerous and stupid, He could have easily collected MW or LH and then caused a huge 1st corner pile up.

And then he rammed Sutil for a positionand should have definatly been penalised for avoidable contact.

And your 17 car pass claim is incredibly off the mark, apart from the new teams he may have passed 4 on the track at most.

[Pup]

Pup, you may not be aware that punk is often extremely peirorative.

Main Entry: 1punk
Pronunciation: \ˈpəŋk\
Function: noun
Etymology: origin unknown
Date: 1596
1 archaic : prostitute
2 [probably partly from 3punk] : nonsense, foolishness
3 a : a young inexperienced person : beginner, novice; especially : a young man b : a usually petty gangster, hoodlum, or ruffian c slang : a young man used as a homosexual partner especially in a prison
4 a : punk rock b : a punk rock musician c : one who affects punk styles

You may have had 3a in mind. But calling Vettel a petty gangster, hoodlum, ruffian, homosexual partner in prison or a prostitute could also be understood by this particular moniker.

A punk is a kid or otherwise small man who gets away with his bad behavior only because he has an overindulgent parent, or someone bigger protecting him, or travels in a gang. Sort of a Peter Lorre character. I think that sums up Vettel and his Red Bull bosses pretty darn well, so that's what I call him - The Punk. Feel free to call him something else in your own posts.