2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
User avatar
chrisc90
41
Joined: 23 Feb 2022, 21:22

Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Whats the score with Max taking the WDC? is it just Perez has to finish above 6th to keep the 'hope' of a title alive? (without Max finishing?)
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

User avatar
hollus
Moderator
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 01:21
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

So, for several pages now we have Mercedes fans saying that Bottas is better than Perez and Red Bull fans saying that Perez is better than Bottas. With, somehow, pretending to not be talking about MAX and HAM gaining some imaginary moral authority high ground.
It is 100% predictable, it adds zero information, it goes on and on in circles and everyone else gets to need to read through it to then realize that it is pure noise.
Seriously, if you want to discuss Max-hype, Max-boo, Ham-hype and Ham-boo... don't!
This is not F1drivers.net, you did not come here for driver talk, please don't flood the place with driver ying-yang.
Rivals, not enemies.

User avatar
organic
1055
Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

chrisc90 wrote:
30 Sep 2023, 13:46
Whats the score with Max taking the WDC? is it just Perez has to finish above 6th to keep the 'hope' of a title alive? (without Max finishing?)
I think if max finishes 6th or better he has it won.

If max does not score points Perez has to finish above 4th to stay mathematically in it unless I'm mistaken

User avatar
chrisc90
41
Joined: 23 Feb 2022, 21:22

Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

hollus wrote:
30 Sep 2023, 14:43
So, for several pages now we have Mercedes fans saying that Bottas is better than Perez and Red Bull fans saying that Perez is better than Bottas. With, somehow, pretending to not be talking about MAX and HAM gaining some imaginary moral authority high ground.
It is 100% predictable, it adds zero information, it goes on and on in circles and everyone else gets to need to read through it to then realize that it is pure noise.
Seriously, if you want to discuss Max-hype, Max-boo, Ham-hype and Ham-boo... don't!
This is not F1drivers.net, you did not come here for driver talk, please don't flood the place with driver ying-yang.
What was wrong with the discussion about Checo becoming a dad to a new baby girl?

We cannot celebrate the fact that Perez has become a father to another child, but we can allow discussion comparing him to Bottas? Logical.
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

User avatar
hollus
Moderator
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 01:21
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

We are stopping the Bottas discussion, no? Nothing particularly wrong with the baby talk (half a page of so was removed, yes, ear rings are a cultural thing in latino countries), but it is off topic. Same as the systematically removed girlfriend posts. F1technical. Technical. Off topics are liable to be removed to help maintain some sort of focus. Gossip can be had in other sites if you so wish.
Rivals, not enemies.

User avatar
chrisc90
41
Joined: 23 Feb 2022, 21:22

Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Image

Happy Birthday Max!!
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

taperoo2k
taperoo2k
14
Joined: 02 Mar 2012, 17:33

Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

organic wrote:
30 Sep 2023, 14:53
chrisc90 wrote:
30 Sep 2023, 13:46
Whats the score with Max taking the WDC? is it just Perez has to finish above 6th to keep the 'hope' of a title alive? (without Max finishing?)
I think if max finishes 6th or better he has it won.

If max does not score points Perez has to finish above 4th to stay mathematically in it unless I'm mistaken
All Max needs to do is win the sprint race and the title is sealed, as there won't be enough
points remaining for Perez to catch and pass Max. I think Perez's main rival is Lewis for
2nd place, Max is just too far ahead. If he can beat Lewis, then I think that will give
Perez a confidence boost to carry over into the 2024 season. Realistically 2024 is likely Perez's
last chance to win the title (assuming Red Bull have the best car and Max doesn't
perform that well). If McLaren rock up with a rocket ship that is able to compete with
Red Bull then I think it would be Max vs Lando for the title.

I think if Max wins the sprint race that puts him 180 or so points ahead of Perez with something
like 172 points remaining (I could be off by a few points either way).

User avatar
ringo
230
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Perez should not feel good about keeping 2nd place against Hamilton in the RB19.
He really messed up this season. I was onw of those who felt he had a decent enough start to challenge Max this season but he imploded.
I am not sure what happened but i think he will learn from this year.
His weakness is qualifying. If he can fix that it would avoid him getting impatient in the midpack when trying to come back to the front.
He can only avoid the impatience because it seems it's part of his personality. He loves to play bumper cars.
I wonder if when Max wins the championship if he will feel like doing formula 1 in 2024.
Redbull would need to give him a good teammate to motivate him to stay in the sport.
Being champion with 6 races to go without any challenge...should be so boring.
For Sure!!

CHT
CHT
-6
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 05:24

Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

ringo wrote:
01 Oct 2023, 03:12
Perez should not feel good about keeping 2nd place against Hamilton in the RB19.
He really messed up this season. I was onw of those who felt he had a decent enough start to challenge Max this season but he imploded.
I am not sure what happened but i think he will learn from this year.
His weakness is qualifying. If he can fix that it would avoid him getting impatient in the midpack when trying to come back to the front.
He can only avoid the impatience because it seems it's part of his personality. He loves to play bumper cars.
I wonder if when Max wins the championship if he will feel like doing formula 1 in 2024.
Redbull would need to give him a good teammate to motivate him to stay in the sport.
Being champion with 6 races to go without any challenge...should be so boring.
In the recent interview, AN pretty much sums up what is going on between Perez and Max.

Perez started the season thinking he could win the championship but lost his self-belief before mid-way. The obvious tipping point was perhaps in Monaco where he made a silly mistake by crashing the car and exposing the RB19 floor design to everyone. Perez simply lost his self-belief and accepted he couldn't beat Max

I don't think Max really cares too much about who is going to be on his team mate and looking at the list of available drivers right now, I would say none will be able to get close to him at RBR.
If you're going to have two teammates, where one is exceptional and the other is brilliant, but not quite at that level, the other one needs to be somebody who will at some point accept that he certainly can't beat Max on pace.
The driver is absolutely key. Data on its own doesn't even begin to tell you the whole story, not least because the data obviously tells you what the car's doing, but a good driver will adapt his driving to whatever the limitation of the car is.

User avatar
organic
1055
Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Tipping point was Miami imo.

Perez felt he had good pace all weekend. Started on pole while max started p9. There were no safety cars, no vsc, both drivers used the same tyres (although inverted compounds). And despite all of this max came from p9 and won comfortably. He was setting times as fast as Perez on fresh hards with 40 lap old hards.

A win would've had Perez leading the championship. Instead it was the most comprehensive drubbing on a track that should suit him on paper

User avatar
organic
1055
Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Christian Horner admits rival teams’ inconsistency contributing to Red Bull’s dominant wins
“The field has been moving around behind us. One week it's McLaren, next week it's Ferrari, the next week it's Mercedes.”

“We've been 90% consistent at the front of the field and we've been fairly limited in the amount of development that we've done on the car.”

“The regulations are stable, so we have the same gearbox on the car, we have the same chassis largely as last year so an awful lot of is carried over.”
"The team has done a great job in efficiently developing the car and reducing the weight, and to maintain this kind of performance across the variance of circuits that we've had.”

Farnborough
Farnborough
101
Joined: 18 Mar 2023, 14:15

Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

organic wrote:
01 Oct 2023, 08:40
Tipping point was Miami imo.

Perez felt he had good pace all weekend. Started on pole while max started p9. There were no safety cars, no vsc, both drivers used the same tyres (although inverted compounds). And despite all of this max came from p9 and won comfortably. He was setting times as fast as Perez on fresh hards with 40 lap old hards.

A win would've had Perez leading the championship. Instead it was the most comprehensive drubbing on a track that should suit him on paper
There's subtlety in that area of performance i believe. Many look at and state "headline" attributes of suspension design, but simple qualities like this wear characteristic are intrinsic to the overall performance. Look at the rears, they generally run much less camber than many competitors, presenting the tread area flatter to the track surface, then to keep the wear and rubber gauge at minimum throughout it's life, to give almost unparalleled (currently) performance longevity. Also one of the key vulnerability when it came to Singapore and its slow warmmup nuance that routed them in quali pace. These appear directly linked to me, with certain circumstances when it offers huge advantage but with the caveat of reduction in another area.

Its one element that seems to be a flipped logic to what has previously been accepted as routine, their approach to rear wheel geometry, that most of the other teams are missing in matching this chassis performance.

User avatar
wogx
60
Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 18:48

Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Image
Kukułka zwyczajna, kukułka pospolita – nazwy ludowe: gżegżółka, zazula (Cuculus canorus) – gatunek średniego ptaka wędrownego z podrodziny kukułek (Cuculinae) w rodzinie kukułkowatych (Cuculidae). Jedyny w Europie Środkowej pasożyt lęgowy. Zamieszkuje strefę umiarkowaną.

User avatar
Juzh
161
Joined: 06 Oct 2012, 08:45

Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

wogx wrote:
01 Oct 2023, 16:39
https://i.imgur.com/NnOZJq1.png
Literally no one wants him replaced cuz he's mexican (what a bunch of bs that is), and everyone because he's lost the plot completely. Alonso had similar treatment back in the days from british media, but that's the way it goes because f1 is by and large an English speaking sport.

101FlyingDutchman
101FlyingDutchman
17
Joined: 27 Feb 2019, 12:01

Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Juzh wrote:
01 Oct 2023, 17:17
wogx wrote:
01 Oct 2023, 16:39
https://i.imgur.com/NnOZJq1.png
Literally no one wants him replaced cuz he's mexican (what a bunch of bs that is), and everyone because he's lost the plot completely. Alonso had similar treatment back in the days from british media, but that's the way it goes because f1 is by and large an English speaking sport.
Agreed. I’m actually disappointed if that is his exact quote. And clearly misreads the situation totally. He hasn’t performed off late and as such is 90% to blame for his own problems. I highly doubt anyone genuinely thinks, let’s get rid of him because he’s Mexican. 🤦‍♂️