Haas - American team in F1

[GitanesBlondes]

Not every driver cares about F1. It's an illusion created by the F1 media and the fanboys that F1 is still the defacto supreme series on the planet that every driver wants to go to. If you like racing and watch other race series out there, it becomes interesting to see the contrasts between the different series. The only people who think F1 is superior in every aspect tend to be those whose viewing habits don't cover any other race series outside of F1.

[stephenwh]

Not every driver cares about F1. It's an illusion created by the F1 media and the fanboys that F1 is still the defacto supreme series on the planet that every driver wants to go to. If you like racing and watch other race series out there, it becomes interesting to see the contrasts between the different series. The only people who think F1 is superior in every aspect tend to be those whose viewing habits don't cover any other race series outside of F1.

Well being in disagreeing with probably the most jaded and cynical person I have ever run across, whom uses terms like "big fat dirty slob" to describe people that you disagree with - is really no surprise to me. I think there is a lot of you that *wish* it were a marketing illusion, and once again, in my opinion; that is really about you, not F1. Formula One's tradition and legacy is intact, just because there is a subset of disgruntled and what appears to be downright angry "ex-fans" whom waste actual fans of Formula One's time with all the diatribe you spew, does not make your theories reality.

I follow NASCAR and IndyCar as well, so I guess that doesn't make me a "fanboy".

[stephenwh]

Moreover, it's extremely arrogant to assume that one's own subjective assessment of anything is an objective reality that others should observe as fact.

It is a fact that Formula One is the most prestigious and widely followed racing series in the world. Deal with it. The winners of the championship each year are crowned as World Champions. Deal with it. It really is remarkable that I am being attacked for speaking the truth.

[Lycoming]

I find it rather tenuous to state it is a fact that F1 is the most prestigious as if it were universally clear and absolute.

[bhall]

[...]
It really is remarkable that I am being attacked for speaking the truth.

You're not being attacked. Your infantile statements are being scrutinized because you've decided to present them on a public forum. --- happens, yanno?

That said, it's quite clear you're probably not someone who's able to discern opinion from fact, subjective from objective, or marketing claims from reality. It's great that you love and support Formula One, and I celebrate your enthusiasm. But, to assert for even one second that your view is the view of any matter is absurd and bordering on lunacy.

Personally, I can't stand NASCAR. It bores me to tears to watch 40-plus cars make an endless series of left turns. But, that doesn't mean I disparage the work and engineering required to make it all happen. Those are top-flight people doing top-flight jobs. (And to be fair, I find current F1 to be very nearly as boring.)

The portfolio of NASCAR sponsors represent companies with a total market capitalization that Formula One can only dream of having in its back pocket. Its races are among the highest-attended sporting events in the world and regularly trounce levels achieved at even F1's most popular venues. Don't confuse worldwide availability for worldwide appeal.

Unless, of course, you want to discuss F1's plummeting viewership numbers or how the majority of its races are subsidized by taxpayers or other governmental interests because public interest has waned to the point of no longer being viable. We can talk about that all day if you like.

*shrug*

[GitanesBlondes]

Not every driver cares about F1. It's an illusion created by the F1 media and the fanboys that F1 is still the defacto supreme series on the planet that every driver wants to go to. If you like racing and watch other race series out there, it becomes interesting to see the contrasts between the different series. The only people who think F1 is superior in every aspect tend to be those whose viewing habits don't cover any other race series outside of F1.

Well being in disagreeing with probably the most jaded and cynical person I have ever run across, whom uses terms like "big fat dirty slob" to describe people that you disagree with - is really no surprise to me. I think there is a lot of you that *wish* it were a marketing illusion, and once again, in my opinion; that is really about you, not F1. Formula One's tradition and legacy is intact, just because there is a subset of disgruntled and what appears to be downright angry "ex-fans" whom waste actual fans of Formula One's time with all the diatribe you spew, does not make your theories reality.

I follow NASCAR and IndyCar as well, so I guess that doesn't make me a "fanboy".

Why would I censor my opinions when I stand by them? You can see me as cynical and jaded, but I take that as a compliment stephen, because frankly I don't buy into the spoonfed BS that a majority of the F1 viewing populace does. By the way, you missed my large point completely regarding Joe Sewer. Joe represents a new breed of "journalist" that is anything but a journalist. Try reading a little further next time.

Anyway, F1 relies on fans who would see beauty in a pile of cow --- to further the myth of F1 being this prestigious and superior race series, when it hasn't been for a long time. You can call your viewpoint as being positive, I call it being gullible to marketing. There were two other race series in F1's history that threatened their supremacy, 1) Group C and 2) CART. The FIA took out Group C when it was obvious it provided in areas that F1 was lacking. CART was destroyed by Tony George's greed, which was a shame as the series was poised to take down F1 as the top tier race series on this planet. With both of those threats removed, F1 has essentially coasted along over the last 2 decades with little to prove since the FIA under Mosley and now Todt have no desire to rock the commercial boat (and will prevent any of their sanctioned series from challenging F1 again) since it's all about the big payday. When you have no real competition, and you have essentially convinced the greater fanbase that the success the sport had in past decades is still relevant to the present day, you wind up with a series that neither innovates, or inspires any real sort of awe. But, to those with rose-tinted glasses, the series continues to hold some sort of prestige and superiority that owes all of that to an increasingly distant past.

You follow NASCAR and IndyCar. Great. So do I. If you watch IndyCar, you'd know the on-track product is better than F1 by and large.

[GitanesBlondes]

[...]
It really is remarkable that I am being attacked for speaking the truth.

You're not being attacked. Your infantile statements are being scrutinized because you've decided to present them on a public forum. --- happens, yanno?

That said, it's quite clear you're probably not someone who's able to discern opinion from fact, subjective from objective, or marketing claims from reality. It's great that you love and support Formula One, and I celebrate your enthusiasm. But, to assert for even one second that your view is the view of any matter is absurd and bordering on lunacy.

Personally, I can't stand NASCAR. It bores me to tears to watch 40-plus cars make an endless series of left turns. But, that doesn't mean I disparage the work and engineering required to make it all happen. Those are top-flight people doing top-flight jobs. (And to be fair, I find current F1 to be very nearly as boring.)

The portfolio of NASCAR sponsors represent companies with a total market capitalization that Formula One can only dream of having in its back pocket. Its races are among the highest-attended sporting events in the world and regularly trounce levels achieved at even F1's most popular venues. Don't confuse worldwide availability for worldwide appeal.

Unless, of course, you want to discuss F1's plummeting viewership numbers or how the majority of its races are subsidized by taxpayers or other governmental interests because public interest has waned to the point of no longer being viable. We can talk about that all day if you like.

*shrug*

Great post bhall.

F1's viewership is likely to be even worse in 2014 than it was in 2013 since everyone knows it is a foregone conclusion the title belongs to Mercedes, and that it is just a matter of which driver wins it.

NASCAR's Sprint Cup Series has had more relevant sponsorships than F1 has in many years. If NASCAR can attract all of the sponsors that F1 dreams of having, that should be an indication to the rabid F1 supporters about how little F1 means in the every day world for good marketing value. F1 is Ecclestone's personal get-rich-quick scheme that fleeces countries out of money that should be spent on citizens.

[Jersey Tom]

I really don't understand why that statement is controversial, it's simply the reality of the racing world. *shrug*

To my earlier point, are you saying that as an F1 fan, or are you a motorsport professional?

I think it's important to acknowledge the reality that if you only do / watch one thing, your view of the "reality of the racing world" might be skewed.

[Cam]

Just making the point that you can cherry pick your list to imply whatever you want.

Jersey Tom - I didn't mean to offend, that wasn't the point - and yes - I intentionally cherry picked those to better illustrate a point. I could have pasted the entire list and it would not have made any difference. I doubt anyone could argue what type of audience NASCAR is marketed to and that it's not really global - would you agree? Example:

Aric Almirola - 43 - Smithfield Foods/STP/Air Force - Ford - Richard Petty Motorsports

Sure, there are several sponsors - but the car is clearly a calling card for the US military.

Jamie McMurray - 1 - McDonald's/Cessna - Chevrolet - Chip Ganassi Racing with Felix Sabates

If you can find "cessna" on there - let me know!

The actual point I'm trying to get across is IMO Haas is going to have a very tough time trying to sell F1 to the NASCAR market - because they are a certain type of audience. Now if Haas is saying "forget that crowd, I'm going to source a new audience" - well how? The 'brains trust' at FOM can't even do that. Which is why I'm baffled as to why he's doing it at all.

[stephenwh]

I really don't understand why that statement is controversial, it's simply the reality of the racing world. *shrug*

To my earlier point, are you saying that as an F1 fan, or are you a motorsport professional?

I think it's important to acknowledge the reality that if you only do / watch one thing, your view of the "reality of the racing world" might be skewed.

Oh I am a very informed fan. I'm 49 years of age and I was introduced to F1 by a South African family that moved next door to us in Tacoma, WA USA in the seventies. I have followed it ever since - I have watched it evolve to where it is, and I have also watched the subset of disgruntled fan base that you represent evolve. I really do think the folks that are disgruntled, and who lurk on F1 forums ready to pig pile on any fan, are essentially trolls.

I am an avid iracer (iracing.com) and through that wonderful racing sim I have gotten a small glimpse into the various differences between racing cars. A NASCAR car is incredibly difficult to drive, while an F1 car is easier to get around a track but very very difficult to find the limit and stay there. It has so much grip and so much downforce that you are lulled into a false sense of going fast, only to find out you are not pushing the car near enough. I understand very clearly as to why F1 has evolved into a young man's sport. I have tremendous respect for guys like Alonso and Vettel and Hamilton, all three simply blindingly fast.

I am not going to be apologetic about mine and others enthusiasm for F1, and for being happy that an American team is finally going to take on the World Championship. F1 has plenty of problems but it remains what it is, the sport evolves and is very well managed. I think it is very sad that fans of the sport have to watch what they say or write around folks like you and Gitanes, and very very sad that Joe Saward gets so viciously attacked, complete with name calling - frankly that is the only "infantile" thing that is happening around here.

My perspective certainly isn't infantile, it is just different from the jaded haters around here, and thank God for that. I and many other Americans will get behind Haas Formula when it happens. American race fans are very savvy because of things like the 1996 CART/IRL split and the rise of NASCAR. If you are really an informed American race fan you really do have to spend time understanding NASCAR, and you have to have a thick skin while you do it, because NASCAR is as unfairly and as mean-spiritedly criticized as F1 is on this site. The bottom line for me is that life is not about constant diatribe and self appointed expertise. Life is about adapting to change and understand why the changes are happening. Some people sit around and gripe and moan about change, well I am not one of them. Plenty of things have happened to F1 that I didn't like, but I adapted and remained a fan. Frankly, it's called loyalty, it's called maturity. To hang out on an F1 site and to constantly put it down, well, that's pretty childish, not to mention a waste of time.

[Jersey Tom]

Jamie McMurray - 1 - McDonald's/Cessna - Chevrolet - Chip Ganassi Racing with Felix Sabates

If you can find "cessna" on there - let me know!

(Though yes I agree with your overall assessment in branding and targeted demographic.)

[strad]

Damn is there a full moon?
I am in total agreement, well maybe not total, with JTs post ""Well, let's clear up some misinformation here.""....
and out of sync with Cam.."""what demographic buys that stuff? Do we see a pattern?
"""
What about that sponsor list?
You never eat Cheerios? Never ever have a Snickers? I chew plenty of gum ever since I quit smokin'. Although I like Chuck Yeager like a good stick of Beemans, I do indulge in Double Mint, what's the problem?
Budweiser...you got a problem with people who drink Bud? Why?
While I don't eat much fast food, all over the world they clamor to get a McDonalds KFC and the rest, even in China?

[Moxie]

Moreover, it's extremely arrogant to assume that one's own subjective assessment of anything is an objective reality that others should observe as fact.

It is a fact that Formula One is the most prestigious and widely followed racing series in the world. Deal with it. The winners of the championship each year are crowned as World Champions. Deal with it. It really is remarkable that I am being attacked for speaking the truth.

WHOA!!!! Easy there scooter. Turn off the computer, go get your self a cool drink of water. Call your granny and ask how she is doing. Buy your mom some flowers. Talk to a pretty young woman. You are getting way too worked up about an F1 forum. Yes, some of us disagree with you, but it is just a discussion. There are many things in life more important than F1. Take a breath of fresh air and enjoy some of them.

[stephenwh]

Notice how you can't post about the subject, but instead you have decided from a remote location what my state of mind is. Notice how your rhetoric is sort of a "talking down to" Yep. Typical. Make it personal. Make it a sin to have passion about the sport this website is dedicated to. Welcome to "Hating 101".

[Cam]

Damn is there a full moon?
I am in total agreement, well maybe not total, with JTs post ""Well, let's clear up some misinformation here.""....
and out of sync with Cam.."""what demographic buys that stuff? Do we see a pattern?
"""
What about that sponsor list?
You never eat Cheerios? Never ever have a Snickers? I chew plenty of gum ever since I quit smokin'. Although I like Chuck Yeager like a good stick of Beemans, I do indulge in Double Mint, what's the problem?
Budweiser...you got a problem with people who drink Bud? Why?
While I don't eat much fast food, all over the world they clamor to get a McDonalds KFC and the rest, even in China?

No full moon . This isn't a literal example of 100% audience participation, but "generally". You won't really see luxury brands in NASCAR - because the audience isn't suited. Just as you won't see 'Burger King' on an F1 car, nor 'US Air Force' - you see Tag, Rolex, Moet, HP...etc

Some brands cross over, i.e. Red Bull, Monster Energy, Shell, etc. but on the whole, sponsors take their money where their own customers will see them - or into new areas in order to grow their market share.

Yes, I too have eaten at the golden arches, had a chocolate bar and I too have watched NASCAR - but I'm not atypical of their target audience. I would elaborate further but I'm fearful people will take it the wrong way. Just as science works in engineering, it works in psychology too

Rather than try to dissect why people buy what they buy in this thread - I'm trying to illustrate how different audiences react and how different motorsports cater for that. Haas is entering F1 why? To win trophies? Ppfff, hardly. He wants to make money - how? Sponsors!!! He's going to sell ad space on every shirt, car panel, hat and beer cooler he find space on. The type of sponsor will directly reflect what F1 is, where F1 is shown and what audience Haas can show it too. The US is not a big market for F1 - even though they are motorsport nuts. How will yanks handle quiet vacuum cleaners rolling around at half speed? How will Haas sell that?