2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

[El Scorchio]

What a gutless statement. It’s basically saying that there is evidence but they thought they’d just ignore it in favour of a theoretical angle that doesn’t exist? And what sort of a result is ‘asking the driver and his team’ going to yield?

Absolute bottle job from the stewards. Another team’s driver would have been pulled up for that.

if it was a none Ferrari they would have taken that time away .... 100% sure

They couldn't prove with 100% certainty that he was over the line so no penalty is fine. But ofc it's just because he's Vettel and drives for Ferrari so he never gets a penalty or ever has got one.

There’s a picture on this thread that shows space between the tyres of the car and the white line. If we have that then the stewards certainly should do. That angle shows it. What more should they need?

[hollus]

Football rules (which might not apply). The vertical projection of the tire on the vertical projection of the line. Maybe. I guess I'll re-post every 10 pages to get over the event horizon.

To be honest, F1 rules probably do not specify what constitutes "off track".

[search]

No further action beyond reprimands for the rest of the drivers investigated.

In otherwords. ‘We have to be seen to be doing something but we have no bloody clue what to do’. If Hulkenberg, Stroll and Sainz were banged to rights then grid drops would be handed out as has happened numerous times before for qualifying blocking.

Maybe in future teams will learn to not be so bloody stupid!

Right after Qualifying Sainz already said that he'd not be worried, as although the FIA had reminded them not to drive unnecessarily slow, they'd also had mentioned that there is no rule allowing a punishment if they still do.

[Noble29]

Football rules (which might not apply). The vertical projection of the tire on the vertical projection of the line. Maybe. I guess I'll re-post every 10 pages to get over the event horizon.

I believe the wording of the rule is "Drivers will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with it"

[Oehrly]

I guess the issue with the Vettel incident is that there are two options based on which to decide.
The tyre is on the line if
- it physically touches the line
- it, when viewed from straight above, blocks part of the view of the line

As the reglement does not specify (or does it?) which of those two is the valid interpretation for deciding in or out, the stewards decided on no penalty. I think that is sort of what they imply by the conflicting camera angles. If both versions of the interpretation give the same result, it is easy. If not, they have a problem.
I guess they might release a technical directive (can you do that for the sporting regs?) and change the rules as soon as they can, to mitigate this issue for the future.

For the rest of the pack and driving unnecessarily slow, the issue might be, where to draw the line. Everybody was sort of involved to a different degree.

[El Scorchio]

You guys talking about Vettel not getting a penalty, what about Bottas completing his qualy run under red flag and his time suddenly appears on the timesheets five minutes later. There is onboard footage clearly showing the red light before he crosses the finish line. If anything, he clearly didn't slow down through Parabolica, when there was flashing yellow.

And this is just as bad as the Vettel thing. If there’s photographic or video evidence that he hadn’t completed his lap before the flags, even by milliseconds, then that’s really tough luck on the driver, but the time shouldn’t stand.

It’s so infuriating when they make a big deal about what the rules are, but then fail to enforce them properly. Regardless of what colour car the driver is in.

[Big Tea]

Football rules (which might not apply). The vertical projection of the tire on the vertical projection of the line. Maybe. I guess I'll re-post every 10 pages to get over the event horizon.

I believe the wording of the rule is "Drivers will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with it"

Not overhanging the fuzzy edge of the paint then?

[Restomaniac]

No further action beyond reprimands for the rest of the drivers investigated.

In otherwords. ‘We have to be seen to be doing something but we have no bloody clue what to do’. If Hulkenberg, Stroll and Sainz were banged to rights then grid drops would be handed out as has happened numerous times before for qualifying blocking.

Maybe in future teams will learn to not be so bloody stupid!

Right after Qualifying Sainz already said that he'd not be worried, as although the FIA had reminded them not to drive unnecessarily slow, they'd also had mentioned that there is no rule allowing a punishment if they still do.

Which puts the FIA right in the middle of this idiotic situation.

[Noble29]

Football rules (which might not apply). The vertical projection of the tire on the vertical projection of the line. Maybe. I guess I'll re-post every 10 pages to get over the event horizon.

I believe the wording of the rule is "Drivers will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with it"

Not overhanging the fuzzy edge of the paint then?

Only when it's appropriate

[Big Tea]

I believe the wording of the rule is "Drivers will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with it"

Not overhanging the fuzzy edge of the paint then?

Only when it's appropriate

I should not have posted that, but could not help it

The stewards have a difficult job.

[El Scorchio]

I guess the issue with the Vettel incident is that there are two options based on which to decide.
The tyre is on the line if
- it physically touches the line
- it, when viewed from straight above, blocks part of the view of the line

As the reglement does not specify (or does it?) which of those two is the valid interpretation for deciding in or out, the stewards decided on no penalty. I think that is sort of what they imply by the conflicting camera angles. If both versions of the interpretation give the same result, it is easy. If not, they have a problem.
I guess they might release a technical directive (can you do that for the sporting regs?) and change the rules as soon as they can, to mitigate this issue for the future.

For the rest of the pack and driving unnecessarily slow, the issue might be, where to draw the line. Everybody was sort of involved to a different degree.

Well I’d have thought that even anyone with an iota of sense in the rule making/stewarding setup should realise you’ll never get consistent aerial views at a perfect overhead angle to make these judgement calls based on the ‘view from above’ so it’s completely pointless if the decision is going to be based on a lack of conclusive footage from that angle. Bonkers.

Base it on footage you can obtain easily, like the broadcast or circuit cameras. If there’s an angle on any of them that shows a gap, then that should be that.

[foxmulder_ms]

bottas q3 lap P3 - bottas is saying yellows cost him pole, which is true, as he takes insane speed into parabolica, probably highest I've seen. What he didn't say is that he forgot to open the DRS on the main straight, which also cost him pole he'll be kicking himself
https://streamable.com/h8gk

Great view of Kimi going off through Parabolica from Hamilton's onboard, had Kimi not gone Hamilton would have got a super tow and maybe got pole himself


https://streamable.com/kx0nb

100%.

[falonso81]

The reasoning behind Bottas keeping his Q3 lap
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14584 ... ag-counted

tl:dr
there's a delay between the call for the red flag and the timing/messaging system registering that - the session is not officially suspended until the official messaging system displays "red flag" - Bottas finished his lap within that delay.

That is some bull crap. Its either red flag or its not.

[Morteza]

[Big Tea]

The reasoning behind Bottas keeping his Q3 lap
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14584 ... ag-counted

tl:dr
there's a delay between the call for the red flag and the timing/messaging system registering that - the session is not officially suspended until the official messaging system displays "red flag" - Bottas finished his lap within that delay.

That is some bull crap. Its either red flag or its not.

In truth, you are correct. But if the incident is behind a car, it will take a while to 'catch up'