Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

[hurril]

Money.

Renault receives the same amount, Redbull pays the same amount but TAG-Heur pays for the ad spot that is the engine name?

[trinidefender]

Money.

Renault receives the same amount, Redbull pays the same amount but TAG-Heur pays for the ad spot that is the engine name?

The main benefit seems to be to Renault. It means that even if the PU is a dud then RedBull cannot use Renault's name in a negative light as they have done this season. It means that if RedBull wants to criticise the PU they will have to use the TAG-Heur name which they won't do as it is one of their sponsors and they didn't actually make the PU.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the cost of the PU has increased as it is no longer running under the Renault name and they lose sponsorship on the car.

RedBull benefits because they get an engine completely paid for by a sponsor.

The sponsor benefits because they get probably the largest advertising space on the car.

[hurril]

Money.

Renault receives the same amount, Redbull pays the same amount but TAG-Heur pays for the ad spot that is the engine name?

The main benefit seems to be to Renault. It means that even if the PU is a dud then RedBull cannot use Renault's name in a negative light as they have done this season. It means that if RedBull wants to criticise the PU they will have to use the TAG-Heur name which they won't do as it is one of their sponsors and they didn't actually make the PU.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the cost of the PU has increased as it is no longer running under the Renault name and they lose sponsorship on the car.

RedBull benefits because they get an engine completely paid for by a sponsor.

The sponsor benefits because they get probably the largest advertising space on the car.

This also means that Renault is not getting mentioned when it turns out that TH-engine slaps the Mercs around. Either way: everybody knows it's stil the same old engine. This is why I'm not really getting it. (Unless, of course, TH pays a ton of money for getting to do this.)

[djos]

Apparently somebody got butthurt that I criticised their team (RedBull) and pointed out their abhorrent behaviour toward Renault this season. Especially after winning 4 back to back championships with them when Renault never even got a mention in a press conference or anything.

I wish people would use the upvote/downvote system for things that actually matter such as good ideas, getting race pictures, being able to bring us behind the scenes information and generally useful information. Not what we currently have by some members where it is a "I don't like what you said about my team so I'm going to downvote you" or a "you said something mildly funny so upvote you" type thing.

A/ it wasn't me and B/ this fiction you keep mentioning has been disproved multiple times!

[NL_Fer]

I think i got another piece of the puzzle.

In 2012-2015 the period the v6 hybrids were developed, Renault was "out of" f1. So little money was invested in development, nut much more as Lotus and Redbull paid for them. During 2014 they started to realize, to win the needed to develop at full, like Merc and Ferrari. But probably the board said no, we will not put more money in this engine, because it will be Redbull who gets all credit for it.

So now finally with Renault being full in f1, they can invest in engine development in a proper way. They will also have Ilmor now, so who knows they will catch Ferrari at the end of 2016.

[FW17]

The current rules also do not allow what you suggest. It would suggest that an IP transfer would have taken place ("it's not a Renault PU anymore"), which would also mean TAG-Heuer would actually be in its rights to develop their own updates. This is not allowed as it stands. It was officially stated Renault will supply updates and PUs and Red Bull runs it under the name of TAG-Heuer.

While regulations seems to have something written on multiple development paths, does it say that 2 development paths by 2 completely different entities with no future collaboration is not allowed?

Would it make Ferrari buying a Mercedes MGU illegal?

[turbof1]

I think it will, although you'll probably will need to hire a lawyer in order to determine that. There's a lot of regulation found outside the actual sporting and technical regulations.

[PlatinumZealot]

The current rules also do not allow what you suggest. It would suggest that an IP transfer would have taken place ("it's not a Renault PU anymore"), which would also mean TAG-Heuer would actually be in its rights to develop their own updates. This is not allowed as it stands. It was officially stated Renault will supply updates and PUs and Red Bull runs it under the name of TAG-Heuer.

While regulations seems to have something written on multiple development paths, does it say that 2 development paths by 2 completely different entities with no future collaboration is not allowed?

Would it make Ferrari buying a Mercedes MGU illegal?

I think that would be a simple part upgrade and will reflect in token use. Those auxiliary parts are almost "free" and not required to show a clear lineage like the main ICE components. For example Ferrari will modify the engine block for 2016 the block might be 60% all new but the physical changes are small and a close progression to what was there before. The other important part is that if Ferrari bought a Mercedes MGU all their customer teams will be forced to stick to that development path. No branching off.

[FW17]

The MGU K and H are 2 major components of the power unit

So as per my understanding if Ferrari buy a Mercedes MGU and run it as it is then shouldn't it be considered as specifications of Mercedes Unit (even though all other 4 major components are a Ferrari)?

If it is allowed...........

Then Shouldn't Red Bull and Renault be allowed to run 2 different engines only the ICE would be shared (or only part of the ICE) and remaining 5 component independently designed?

i.e
Renault Engine- All Renault components

Tag Hauer engine -
Renault ICE block, crank, valve train, cam drive, oil pump, water pump and pneumatics
Red Bull Head, cam shaft, pistons and rods
Renault Turbo Charger
Red Bull MGU
Red Bull Batteries and CE

[jure]

The MGU K and H are 2 major components of the power unit

So as per my understanding if Ferrari buy a Mercedes MGU and run it as it is then shouldn't it be considered as specifications of Mercedes Unit (even though all other 4 major components are a Ferrari)?
......

Tag Hauer engine -
Renault ICE block, crank, valve train, cam drive, oil pump, water pump and pneumatics
Red Bull Head, cam shaft, pistons and rods
Renault Turbo Charger
Red Bull MGU
Red Bull Batteries and CE

No, it certainly isn't like that. If it was, RB could buy ice from Ferrari and ers from Renault (hypothetically). During the season RB would spend no tokens but have the whole pu upgraded. Wouldn't that be awesome?

Like PlatinumZealot said, if you change a component of the engine it reflects in (official) manufacturer's token usage and it does not matter who actually produced a part.

I still don't understand where does the idea of RB producing their own pu comes from. Do they have any in-house knowledge about mgu-h, turbo design ? You can not design mgu-h without having detailed knowledge about turbo. One can not bolt parts together like lego. They might hire Illien to produce pistons, heads,.. or to research different combustion concepts, but designing whole pu is something totally different.

[ringo]

It has been explicitly stated that renaul and RB PUs will be supplied by Renualt. There is no spicing up by Redbull.

[dren]

Renault took too long to sort issues...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122384

Sounds like they had piston problems and other combustion issues with the ICE in the 9k rpm range. Maybe this is when they really start to load up the MGUH?

[ME4ME]

To me the funny thing is that Renault has been in denial all year long (2015), and Red Bull has been made out to be the bad guys. But now that Renault has their own team, and ultimately are fully responsible for their own performance on track, they start admitting to stuff and playing down chances in advance.

I hope they have learned an awful lot in 2015. Progress has to be made in 2016.

[djos]

Amazing isn't it!

[bill shoe]

Renault by themselves could have made better progress on their 2015 powertrain, and RB by themselves could have directed better progress on the 2015 powertrain. But when combined, the two cultures were very different and dysfunctional. The whole was less than the sum of the parts. Renault now clearly controls engine development, but both sides will pay for their 2015 sins with a less competitive 2016 powertrain.

I think it's easy to say RB was trying to be the Chef when it was actually Renault's kitchen, but I suspect there are also a lot of lessons for Renault about how to work with and keep control of customer relationships.