Alonso's Crash

[alexx_88]

I say it's deeper than what's being reported, it's Alonso's subconscious wanting to forget the entire last five seasons with the Scuderia.

Then he didn't set it properly as he also forgot the two world championships.

Anyway, there are a bunch of theories out there, let's wait and see what the FIA says or if any new developments are revealed to us in the future.

[Del]

... Just an F1 that moves inexplicably to the right and, after the first hit, continues to bounce against the wall. ...

Indeed...in your theory - why would the 13 year old kart racer be pushing it against the wall...
And if he passed out (during the first impact) why the car would be pushing itself to the wall... I'm still keen to believe that it was some kind of a car failure... and I'm not pushing anyone to think the same way as me.
But - sudden turn to the right... brake marks (and downshifts),no counter steer,the car continues to go right after the impact...even the steering wheel seems like it's stuck on the right turn...

I say it's deeper than what's being reported, it's Alonso's subconscious wanting to forget the entire last five seasons with the Scuderia.

Haha, yeah maybe he got pissed off of all the missfortune ,and all the shitty cars he get to drive,and decided to finaly end it all lol

*shitty - not a winner car from the start Not saying that a F1 car is shitty in general

[JimClarkFan]

Yes, the only problem is that onboard footage from Vettel's car and his recollection don't mention anything about him running wide and losing control. Just an F1 that moves inexplicably to the right and, after the first hit, continues to bounce against the wall. That's the part which seems strange to me.

Where can we find this onboard footage? If you have seen it I would also like to see it also.

There is footage of Vettel's car behind Alonso on a lap or two prior to the accident, but Vettel seemed quite far back, at least 1 full corner.

It is also entirely conceivable that a car that spins it's right rear wheel on astroturf, but finds grip on it's left rear wheel will suddenly veer right.

[SectorOne]

Mclaren should just release the telemetry. Cut out from Turn 2 to after the crash and post the file online.

Steering trace
Wheel speeds
G-meter
GPS data for position on track

No competitor will have a revelation just by looking at telemetry from one single corner.

[wesley123]

Why should they?

[SectorOne]

Why should they?

Why not? There´s nothing to hide anyways right?

[Moose]

Why should they?

Why not? There´s nothing to hide anyways right?

Sure there is - all their data about how their car performs, which would be very interesting to other teams.

[void]

Why should they?

If you have Position, steering pedals, you can have speed, estimate engine power and other things. And for a team looking for sponors it can show some weakness.

[wesley123]

Why should they?

Why not? There´s nothing to hide anyways right?

Except for all kinds of data that other teams surely would find interesting.

Plus, I fail to see the point what there would be to gain from releasing the data?

[nevill3]

... Just an F1 that moves inexplicably to the right and, after the first hit, continues to bounce against the wall. ...

Indeed...in your theory - why would the 13 year old kart racer be pushing it against the wall...
And if he passed out (during the first impact) why the car would be pushing itself to the wall... I'm still keen to believe that it was some kind of a car failure... and I'm not pushing anyone to think the same way as me.
But - sudden turn to the right... brake marks (and downshifts),no counter steer,the car continues to go right after the impact...even the steering wheel seems like it's stuck on the right turn...

I say it's deeper than what's being reported, it's Alonso's subconscious wanting to forget the entire last five seasons with the Scuderia.

Haha, yeah maybe he got pissed off of all the missfortune ,and all the shitty cars he get to drive,and decided to finaly end it all lol

*shitty - not a winner car from the start Not saying that a F1 car is shitty in general

I thought the drivers were trained to let go of the steering wheel when an impact is inevitable/imminent, to prevent their hands/arms getting injured. If Alonso released the steering wheel at the first impact then the car would naturally continue in a straight line along the wall possibly because the steering arms were damaged too.

I personally believe that the combination of running wide, going faster than he had on his previous lap, on the astro turf and a sudden gust of wind caused him to lose control/traction similar to Maldonado's accident last year but his quick reflexes enabled him to straighten the car more than Maldonado did resulting in him broadsiding the wall rather than hitting nose first.

[SectorOne]

If you have Position, steering pedals, you can have speed, estimate engine power and other things. And for a team looking for sponors it can show some weakness.

Teams can already get speed through GPS data, they also estimate power without a single bit of telemetry from Mclaren.
More weakness then what is already showed through doing the least amount of laps of any team?

What more can they learn from one corner with the selected telemetry points i provided?
(half of which contains a crash)

Except for all kinds of data that other teams surely would find interesting.

Plus, I fail to see the point what there would be to gain from releasing the data?

Like what exactly? What kind of revelations are there to be discovered from the selected telemetry snippets from one corner of a track where half the telemetry represents a crash.

They would stop all the speculation in a heartbeat, telemetry doesn´t lie either unlike Mclaren which was proven before they can lie if they feel it´s necessary.

[poolboy67]

look. let me tell you this plain and simple.

PART 1: Theories

1.
medical theory:

if alsonso crashed because he was unable to controll the car (vettel saying the car weirdly veered towards the wall) sounds like the medical condition called STROKE! this would mean alonso is also prone to strokes, and his carreer would definetly be over. strokes will cause loss of body controll, and most likely loss of consciousness. some times loss of memory. however, a stroke has long term to permanent effects effects since it's an disruption in brain function. alonso is fine now. so whaddya know, concussion wins, as it is neither long term, or permanent damage in this case.

2.
mechanical theory:

1. electrocution
electrocution can cause muscle spasms, loss of consciousness, severe burns, death. you name it.
however, the driver is protected by non-conductive coveralls and gloves. the driver is touching a steering wheel that has rubber handles. the bottoms of the driver's shoes are rubber.
sweating caused a conductive connection? well how come then there hasn't been a single electrocution during wet races? or any other electrocutions than the one a sauber mechanic recieved when the KERS was tested for the first time. could it be that the KERS/ERS system is inherently safe for the driver? oooh how could that be! right.... oh, remember how the ERS warning light was showin green after the crash? yup. it's just simply not plausible for the driver to recieve an electric shock, strong enough to cause loss of consciousness and memory memory loss i.e brain damage. it's impossible, because the ERS battery can only, reportedly, send a small amount of energy trough a capacitive coupling effect, which is enough to cause pain but not knock outs. the sauber mechanic would've suffered similar injuries to alonso if this was actually possible. instead, he only suffered pain. we've also lately seen mechanics not wearing their rubber gloves when wheeling the cars back into the pits. could've alonso been recieving painful electrocution? more about that later in this post.

2. software glitch
a glitch in the software could've sent all IC/ERS power suddently to the wheels, causing wheelspin, which then naturally surprised alonso causing him to loose controll of the car. the glitch could've even been stuck on, giving constant full power to the rear wheels. alonso may have gotten the car to steer the nose away from the wall just before impact. causing the car to hit the wall sideways. a similar crash happened last year in bahrain testing to raikkonen. it also sent raikkonen to the wall. and it also was caused by software glitch, sending full power to.. blah blah. you get the point
with the old v8's the drivers didn't have to controll the throttle in high speed corners, because the v8's lacked torque. these new engines have so much torque, they can and will spin a car even in high speed corners. and alonso wasn't even going too fast after the corner, which just makes it easier for the PU to spin the wheels.

3. mechanical failure
an accident like this, in mechanical viewpoint, basicly demands a broken suspension component such as a damper, a suspension arm or a steering arm. however, a broken suspension component would have to happen on either end of the car thusly:
front, crash side component failure (right side). the crash occured after a right hand corner. meaning a the failure would have to happen on the right side of the front suspension, because the weel has to pull the car into a spin. it's however unlikely since front suspension failures mostly cause sudden and severe understeer. if the failure was on the left side, the car would've definetly understeered, and the crash would've definetly not occured. furthermore, suspension failure was not seen on the left front, and on the right front it is nearly impossible for us to determine mechanical failure, cause the rest of the component of that side were destroyed in the crash.
rear, opposite to crash side component failure. again similarily to the front, but this time the failure has to cause severe oversteer. as the left side wheel is the loaded one in a right hand corner, a failure in it's suspension components would absolutely cause a spin. but then again, no damage was visible on that side.
therefore, most likely not a mechanical failure.

PART 2.

1. press releases and public statement theories
my theory of ron dennis' early statements, and the later (seemingly a mess up) is an intent of protecting mclaren's image and to not cause unnecessary worry amongst the fans. it's like the authorities (police, medical, fire dep.) don't first give out detailed information about big accidents or terror attacks. cause they, like dennis and mclaren, firstly want to know what really happened, and secondly they don't want to cause mass fear or worrying. mclaren's image has recieved a massive blow already due to the unsuccessful testing. a crash that may have been caused by a failure in the car, that sent their driver to the hospital is the last thing they'd want at this point. because as we all know, they're trying to secure new sponsors. nobody wants to sponsor a team that has a dangerous car with a rubbish engine. (to an outsider it must seem like that)
this is where then, most of the conspiracy theories stem from; bad attempts to cover the crash causes.

CONCLUSION

the crash it seems to me, was most likely caused by a software glitch, causing loss of controll. alonso the was able to correct the car's heading, but only just before a side impact with the concrete wall. the impact causes alonso' head to hit the thin and hard padding on the side of the cockpit. this causes big enough deceleration forces on the head to send the brain bouncing inside the skull, causing a concussion and a short loss of consciousness. as alonso is unconscious and the car bounces on the concrete wall a few times, then comes to a halt. a marshal discovers a disoriented and confused (concussion and loss of consciousness symptoms) alonso and calls the medics. same may have occured in the team radio. later in the hospital, during basic post head trauma checkups, it is discovered alonso has memory loss. ron dennis is shocked from the news and releases a hastly composed press statement, with intent to protect alonso and the team's reputation. later, alonso recovers his memory, but because of a risk of crashing and injuring the brain even more, he is denied of drive on the first race. some details naturally leak to the press, causing mclaren to correct/further detail their earlier statements. both very regular behavior from the media and the pr people.

post notes.
1.1
elecrocution pain
this is only possible if was indeed possible for the driver to even get electrocuted (as stated before, the driver is well insulated). but yes pain can cause difficulty of controlling the car. but this would've most likely caused alonso to simply slam the brakes, in attempt to get out of the car ASAP. therefore we can put the whole electrocution theory to rest.

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i'll be very amazed if the FIA report even suggest electrocution as even an accessory to the cause of the crash.

now i'll leave this thread and seriously place my vote on locking it. because it simply is pointless to dig this any further, cause there's enough of evidence to for all the weird conspiracy theories and convoluted ones to just look ridiculous and serve no purpose other than to beat a dead horse.
lock lock lock. please.

[FrukostScones]

lock him please

[turbof1]

@Poolboy: the opinion about the software glitch is actually the first reasonable argument I came across which does not stroke with the information from mclaren.

I don't agree with it, I personally still think it was a gush of wind given others went also off at that corner for the same reason, but a software glitch does make a lot of sense.

It doesn't even necessarily have to be a "glitch". The software determines a big part of the driveability of the car. We don't even know how far Honda advanced with the development of it. It could very well be that the car is a hand full.

It doesn't even have to contradict the theory about wind, but could have happened at the same time. The software not provided comfortable or reliable driveability, and a gush of wind further destabilising the whole car to the point he runs wide.

Thumbs up on that.

Again, the reason why we leave this topic open is to prevent spreading the discussion to the other topics. We can't reasonable lock the test thread, race thread, team thread and several extra opened topics just to kill the discussion. It's better to let this thing die out, out of its own, in one single topic. As it looks now, he'll be participating in Malaysia. I think after that nobody will care anymore to debate this.

I personally am disgusted by the topic itself since it's simply put morbid when people are mainly more concerned with the cause of an accident then the well-being of the driver. It's quite shocking (no pun intended) tbh. However, that is a personal opinion which I'm certainly not going to push through. As a moderator I try to steer the topic to reason and logic, but that is not always possible or a succes.

[poolboy67]

@Poolboy: the opinion about the software glitch is actually the first reasonable argument I came across which does not stroke with the information from mclaren.

I don't agree with it, I personally still think it was a gush of wind given others went also off at that corner for the same reason, but a software glitch does make a lot of sense.

It doesn't even necessarily have to be a "glitch". The software determines a big part of the driveability of the car. We don't even know how far Honda advanced with the development of it. It could very well be that the car is a hand full.

It doesn't even have to contradict the theory about wind, but could have happened at the same time. The software not provided comfortable or reliable driveability, and a gush of wind further destabilising the whole car to the point he runs wide.

Thumbs up on that.

i actually forgot to add something about the wind there. i'll theorize i was rather tired and may have forgotten to talk about it
well the wind theory does actually seem sound, but the thing that makes me doubtfull about it is that it was on the very first statement from dennis, i believe. a little too soon to be making that conclusion that it was the wind, i think. but it is very possible yes.

now i'll leave