Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[bauc]

McLaren have not started their engine yet much less receieved it. Believe it or not this is good news. The sakura warriors are still tweaking out to the last detail before machining those last bits.. And no. My sources are not in my head.

Development to the last minute possible is the way to go, you want to make sure you don't leave any stone unturned

Hypothetically, could Mclaren run the old PU (2016 last spec) on the first test just to check AERO correlation and then use the new PU at the second test? I know that the PU configuration will be different (size, design ect) but as far as I know the mounting points of the PU are standardized by FIA so it should not be that difficult to do it right?

But from another hand you want to see how the car (suspension, aero, tyres ect) behave with the new engine under acceleration & braking so going this route has its own pros and cons obviously.

Just a thought anyway

[Craigy]

I know that the PU configuration will be different (size, design ect) but as far as I know the mounting points of the PU are standardized by FIA so it should not be that difficult to do it right?

the mounting points being the same are probably the only bits that are the same. All the pipework/intercooler/rads and stuff will have evolved, not to mention the wider cars in 2017 will have different shapes for things.

[bauc]

I know that the PU configuration will be different (size, design ect) but as far as I know the mounting points of the PU are standardized by FIA so it should not be that difficult to do it right?

the mounting points being the same are probably the only bits that are the same. All the pipework/intercooler/rads and stuff will have evolved, not to mention the wider cars in 2017 will have different shapes for things.

Yeah you are right, so it will only be a huge task

[mclaren111]

I know that the PU configuration will be different (size, design ect) but as far as I know the mounting points of the PU are standardized by FIA so it should not be that difficult to do it right?

the mounting points being the same are probably the only bits that are the same. All the pipework/intercooler/rads and stuff will have evolved, not to mention the wider cars in 2017 will have different shapes for things.

Yeah you are right, so it will only be a huge task

Imperative for Honda to supply a 2017 Spec A engine that is reliable for first test so that McLaren can do lots & lots of laps to gather required data, evaluate and develop aero as much as posible and start work on suspension and setups.

Final race engine only needs to be ready for Australia.

[godlameroso]

I wonder if they'll do like last year and start the test with the 2016 power unit, so they can get a baseline, and then the new one, to maximize back patting from a job well done?

[hemichromis]

the mounting points being the same are probably the only bits that are the same. All the pipework/intercooler/rads and stuff will have evolved, not to mention the wider cars in 2017 will have different shapes for things.

Yeah you are right, so it will only be a huge task

Imperative for Honda to supply a 2017 Spec A engine that is reliable for first test so that McLaren can do lots & lots of laps to gather required data, evaluate and develop aero as much as posible and start work on suspension and setups.

Final race engine only needs to be ready for Australia.

They could take 10 engines to testing if they want!

[KingHamilton01]

Yeah you are right, so it will only be a huge task

Imperative for Honda to supply a 2017 Spec A engine that is reliable for first test so that McLaren can do lots & lots of laps to gather required data, evaluate and develop aero as much as posible and start work on suspension and setups.

Final race engine only needs to be ready for Australia.

They could take 10 engines to testing if they want!

No doubt they will be testing variants of the engine to see which work's the best, but they have a lot more freedom with the token system binned off!

[ME4ME]

I wonder if they'll do like last year and start the test with the 2016 power unit, so they can get a baseline, and then the new one, to maximize back patting from a job well done?

Didn't you read the posts above about why that is impractical?

[godlameroso]

No, in any case I don't agree to it's impracticality. One or two days out of 8 using the old power unit isn't going to stop them from getting useful mileage on the new units. Furthermore, on their 3rd year you'd expect Honda to have made some strides in reliability, not just in minimizing problems, but being able to diagnose and repair them as well. They've progressed far beyond 2015 where a small water leak, or malfunctioning sensor would sideline them all day.

When one really sits down and thinks about it, the level of progression Honda has achieved in such a short period of time is incredible. The way they display their early power units shows how far removed the new one will be from everything they've done up to this point.

[ME4ME]

No, in any case I don't agree to it's impracticality. One or two days out of 8 using the old power unit isn't going to stop them from getting useful mileage on the new units. Furthermore, on their 3rd year you'd expect Honda to have made some strides in reliability, not just in minimizing problems, but being able to diagnose and repair them as well. They've progressed far beyond 2015 where a small water leak, or malfunctioning sensor would sideline them all day.

When one really sits down and thinks about it, the level of progression Honda has achieved in such a short period of time is incredible. The way they display their early power units shows how far removed the new one will be from everything they've done up to this point.

You miss the point. The impracticallity comes from the level of integration of the PU's in this era of F1. It is not a modular structure where parts are easily interchangeable. Almost everything about the PU and the car as a whole is designed as a fully integrated package. Not only will they have to change or re-develop an awful lot of components to run the 2016 unit, there might not even be space to accomodate it. Also Cowell has spoken about the increased forces that the 2017 PU's has to deal with, so the 2016 Honda unit might not be adequately rigid even for testing. So again, it would be impractical to use a PU that the car is not designed for. Doing so would waste a lot of resources.

[godlameroso]

No, in any case I don't agree to it's impracticality. One or two days out of 8 using the old power unit isn't going to stop them from getting useful mileage on the new units. Furthermore, on their 3rd year you'd expect Honda to have made some strides in reliability, not just in minimizing problems, but being able to diagnose and repair them as well. They've progressed far beyond 2015 where a small water leak, or malfunctioning sensor would sideline them all day.

When one really sits down and thinks about it, the level of progression Honda has achieved in such a short period of time is incredible. The way they display their early power units shows how far removed the new one will be from everything they've done up to this point.

You miss the point. The impracticallity comes from the level of integration of the PU's in this era of F1. It is not a modular structure where parts are easily interchangeable. Almost everything about the PU and the car as a whole is designed as a fully integrated package. Not only will they have to change or re-develop an awful lot of components to run the 2016 unit, there might not even be space to accomodate it. Also Cowell has spoken about the increased forces that the 2017 PU's has to deal with, so the 2016 Honda unit might not be adequately rigid even for testing. So again, it would be impractical to use a PU that the car is not designed for. Doing so would waste a lot of resources.

We'll see, I don't think packaging will be much more difficult than last year, seeing as how the cars are getting wider, also power unit mounting points are standardized +- a few millimeters. So even if radiators, and heat exchangers are different, with different routing, they could still fit them with the extra space afforded by wider bodywork.

In any case you're probably right and they'll start right away with the new engine in a de-tuned state, and focus on long runs.

[Andres125sx]

I don't think packaging will be much more difficult than last year, seeing as how the cars are getting wider, also power unit mounting points are standardized +- a few millimeters. So even if radiators, and heat exchangers are different, with different routing, they could still fit them with the extra space afforded by wider bodywork.

Extra space? I don´t think that´s true. Even if the car is wider, the bodywork is some sort of leggings wich accomodates to the inner parts, so it will only be wider where the new PU itself is wider, and it will be narrower where the new PU is narrower, so using an old PU would require new bodywork

And that´s assuming the PU does not interfere with the chassis itself, as for example the anti-roll hoop might be a problem if the new PU is longer or shorter, wich is fairly plausible once we know the layout of the different hybrid components will change this season.

Anycase when the rule change is so big, I don´t think they´d get useful data from using the old PU, at least not to the point to make new and unique bodywork to accomodate it for one day of testing. With standing aero rules it would be different, as using the old PU would provide a reference to evaluate new aero parts, but when the aero is so different I don´t think it´s worth the extra job. Maybe if PU would be very similar, but not if it does require new bodywork at least

[PlatinumZealot]

It would form a dark cloud of uncertainty and angst if honda sugests to McLaren to use the 2016 unit. Just Imagine that meeting!

I agree with Goldie that the 2016 unit can be easily retrofitted with bastard parts to run in the 2017 chassis.. But it would be too retrograde to do this just for McLaren to get more miles when Honda needs the mileage even more. Sort of a gambler's choice but i believe with two years of experience in these engine regs and the japanese way of development, Honda will have good reliability out of the box.

[Sasha]

About the only thing the same between 2016 and 2017 PU is the 90 degree V.
So why would you ask/state they would run the 2016 PU for the first practice?

[hemichromis]

I really cannot see why they would bring a single 2016 unit. They already will know the hp difference and even if the 2017 was unreliable they would be better off bringing many 2017 engines.

It would be interesting for US to see the difference however.