2018 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 13-15

[Vanja #66]

Yes. A new floor for Bahrain.

Actually, it was the same as Melbourne, as later analyses showed. Their learned about the car and found the right set up.

[Xwang]

I have the impression that the one stop strategy was not the correct one.
All Ferrari and Mercedes driver had have to slow down too much (Rai at the end of the first stint to lengthen the life of its stop, the other seemed without tyre during the last 10 laps) .
Maybe a 2 stop strategy would have been more flexible?
I admit however that without the SC, red Bull drivers were in the same situation having switched to medium pretty at the same time as the other and being some seconds adrift.

[PlatinumZealot]

The irony that has been missed is that Verstappen actually caused both Vettel and Hamilton to lose places in his nutcase move. Hamilton had to take evasive action off the track which let Raikkonen through.

Don't get me wrong Vettel lost far more but Verstappen managed to cause both of the 4 time WDC's issues in 1 idiotic move.

Bear in mind that Verstappen had also tried a brain dead move in an impossible place on Hamilton only a few laps earlier. Does he never learn?

Apart from that Verstappen was too 'greedy' today, you're blowing things out of proportion.

Verstappens move on Ham was far from brain-dead, it was a phenomenal move but Lewis i'd say actually pulled a really d*ck move on Max which was left completely unattended and quite frankly set a stage.

If you actually have the b*lls to objectively and calmly look at that move of verstappen on Hamilton, then you would have noticed that verstappen was alongside hamilton, when all of a sudden, Hamilton's car made a sudden frisky move to the right, which Max had to evade and sent him off track which then saw Ricciardo pass him.

Hamilton had the line completely under control, and in my opinion, pushed him off track deliberately. there was no braking problems for Lewis, there was no loss of grip, it was a clear signal to Max that he wasn't making it easy on him, in my opinion, a rather ***hole move, especially since Max' front wheels far passed Lewis rear wheels in the corner so Lewis was actually oblidged to leave him space - which he actually totally did not. Apart from all of that,
the outside line was dirty too so there was no grip for Max to respond to Lewis suddenly moving towards him.
even if it wasn't delibarate at all, that doesn't make it a brain-dead move. the only braindead move i saw today
was that of Gasly on Hartley.

.

To me it looked like Max just lost the rear and after saving the car had no choice but to run wide. I will need to see it again, but i thought Lewis left room. Going to the outside of the track at that point was madness with the marbles.

This! Alonso had tried a similar move on someone but backed out because, one, he was not alongside and two, there marbles off the racing line.

Watching Lewis' race line and the fact that Max's front wing never even came up to Lewis' front wheel means that Lewis had every right to push him wide - but he didn't - he stayed true to thw race line and It young Max than ran himself out of road into the Marbles.

[Manoah2u]

I reviewed the onboards and parts on Max' move on Hamilton.

I agree he was too greedy though - which is really what sums up his race, let's hope he finally learns from it.
Nobody says he needs to start driving like a granny, but he's too eager. His engineer said so himself after he passed
both Hamilton and Kimi at the start. 'Dont get greedy'.

That really sums what the race would turn out to become.

Indeed, he went on the marbles and went off. Nevertheless i do also stand by that i do see Hamilton making a 'cheeky' move.
It was less intense of a move than i thought i saw during the race itself, and Sky Sports F1 also mentioned it seems Hamilton
made a move that seems like some form of 'payback' after last race. Even then still indeed, Verstappen couldn't keep on that
side of the track without side-effects so that move too was just a tad too greedy. Braindead? no. Greedy? yes.

Let's be clear; i'm not defending Max' overexcited moves. He should learn to control his emotions a bit more, it's a Verstappen curse it seems.
Vettel was very honest and realistic about it all. Though it can happen, it was far from neccesary and cost him a podium for sure. Also, i fully
agree with Vettel that there is no more defence that he's still young. He has had enough races and laps under his belt, time to get more mature about it.

He can learn a great deal from DannyRic, keeping his head calm. Calm doesn't mean not making brave moves, but Max clearly didnt calculate his actions enough.

The sad truth for Max is, had he been more patient, starting with Lewis, he would have guaranteed won this race. There was no doubt about it that he was going
to get Lewis any way, he simply needed to wait untill the final 2 corners to creep up close anough and then DRS Blast past the Merc at the finish straight and take
his position at the 1st corner, thank you come again. All that happened after then was never neccesary as on strategy alone they would have taken the rest of the
field in front, which they did anyway. And likewise, he got too greedy with Vettel too. exactly the same, just wait till finish straight, there was no defence for Ferrari.
He would have been 1st if he been patient behind lewis, he would have been 2nd if he was patient with Vettel - he wouldn't have hit him and thus never had gotten
a 10 second penalty.

Hell, if he learn even the tiniest amount of patience more, then he's going to be a much bigger force to reckon with. There's going for a gap, and there's going for a gap
that isn't there YET.

Let's hope Baku hands him a win.

Also, fully apart from this all,

I'm seriously getting excited for this year! There's been a huge amount of overtaking, exciting racing and huge surprises.
Also very happy with Alonso, and both Hulk and Sainz delivered well too.

Also quite positive about Stroll's race today - Gasly went from hero to zero today but he'll learn too.

Finally also rather getting bored with same old whiney Grosjean. He's really starting to get old news. On the contrary i liked
Magnussen's driving today and his cheeky comment on the radio too about lapped cars during the Safety car lol.

[Edax]

There was no way in hell that the Hamilton move was ever going to work for starters. Verstappen on the marbles in a place that is no way an overtaking place against a driver of Hamilton's experience and skill? Give over Max

No come on, that move, had he pulled it off would have been applauded and praised by everyone - deservedly so. It was a gamble which almost worked, he was already alongside Hamilton round the outside. Also he only slightly harmed himself in that move and did not take anyone out. With hindsight it was the wrong attempt and he should have waited, but knowing how strong the Merc is on the straights and not knowing hot long the Softs will deliver the extra bit of performance it was a valid attempt. He was back up Hamilton's arse a few laps later.

I think that is part of the equation. Ves was clearly not set up for the straights which means he had to do the overtaking in the twisty bits, which carries more risk. Even Alonso made contact with Vettel which could just have easily have resulted in damage to both.

The move on Hamilton was ambitious but doable, certainly if you factor in the tire difference. And I don’t think he had the straightline speed to do it like Ric, as Hamilton was just pulling away from him at the back straight.

The move on Vettel on the other hand was just plain dumb. It looked like a red mist attempt to quickly repair the damage of the failed move against Hamilton.

[Unc1eM0nty]

Red Bull is pure racing team. fast engine changes . sub 3 seconds pit stops while double stacking. prompt strategy changes. verstappen & renault are costing them a bit.

I have to agree with you here, They think on their feet and try and finish a race in the quickest time, always aggressive.
Their only weakness is Renault & Max.

They have to throw the dice though don't they, Ferrari and Mercedes have the edge in qualifying, then track position gives them the platform to dictate strategy, Redbull can follow or try something different.

I didn't see them pulling tricks like this when they were the dominant team

[Wass85]

What has happened to Hamilton's pace? He's a monster in China normally, how can the team with all that data mess it up for him? He hasn't all of a sudden forgot how to drive so this weekend has been very strange indeed. Where's the fight in him?

[Harvester]

I have the impression that the one stop strategy was not the correct one.
All Ferrari and Mercedes driver had have to slow down too much (Rai at the end of the first stint to lengthen the life of its stop, the other seemed without tyre during the last 10 laps) .
Maybe a 2 stop strategy would have been more flexible?
I admit however that without the SC, red Bull drivers were in the same situation having switched to medium pretty at the same time as the other and being some seconds adrift.

Actually I think now that starting on softs instead of US was not a good choice. If ferrari started on US they would never finish behind bottas. But it is easy to say it now. They thought US are useless in the race but that proved to be wrong.

[Nickel]

What happened to Magnussen after the safety car? Seems he was running up in 7th ahead of Hulkenberg then ended up quite a ways down. This wasn't picked up on the broadcast, I just noticed on the left side tracker. Pretty sure it wasn't pit stops...

[ferkan]

Reverse the situation: how many times has max done this to others was Lewis did today + what do you expect after bahrain (that he waves him through?). Good to see Lewis giving max a taste of his own medicine.

vengeance is never a good thing. doesn't take away that indeed Max has caused similar issues with other drivers,
simply pointing out that it's not as fairdinkum bad all the way for Verstappen.

Please quit the whining over that rbr engine, they have a renault: deal with it. Horner and marko have put themselves in this situation that they're into.

there's no whining, it's the cold hard truth. they are dealing with it but the fact remains the same.
Ferrari has managed to pick up the pace and have an engine that is on par or perhaps even surpassing that of Mercedes by now. Meanwhile, Renault is still out in the dry. At the very least, both FER and MER have qually mode, Renault does not. That is of no fault of RB, that is purely down to Renault, and RB is paying the price for that.

And no, Marko and Horner did NOT put themselves into that situation. Renault singlehandedly dropped the ball in 2014. The only blame for RB is that they did not politically respond to that situation correctly. But that does not take away Renault gigantically dropped the ball, just as Honda is still behind.

Horner and Marko did not make the Renault engine, Renault did. and we're 4 years on now and the Renault engine is still miles behind.

Hence if Renault actually had qually mode, they could have been in the battle for pole, which makes all the difference for the race itself. It is without any doubt that RedBulls race craft is very impressive, and is quite frankly exceeding that of Ferrari and Mercedes.

There is no chance that Renault has more then half a second deficit in qualy mode in China. In fact, Horner said it was 0.45s. That means Max and Ric qualified 0.25 and 0.35s behind Vettel without engine included in equation. I don't see this "RB better race car". How? Had it not been for SC they wouldn't sniff podium, let alone win. They won because they pitted and drove last 20 laps on new softs instead of used mediums. Thats all.

[iotar__]

I have the impression that the one stop strategy was not the correct one.
All Ferrari and Mercedes driver had have to slow down too much (Rai at the end of the first stint to lengthen the life of its stop, the other seemed without tyre during the last 10 laps) .
Maybe a 2 stop strategy would have been more flexible?
I admit however that without the SC, red Bull drivers were in the same situation having switched to medium pretty at the same time as the other and being some seconds adrift.

Actually I think now that starting on softs instead of US was not a good choice. If ferrari started on US they would never finish behind bottas. But it is easy to say it now. They thought US are useless in the race but that proved to be wrong.

Yes, it is a convenient hindsight logic Starting on softs was better and SC changed everything.

When you start 1-2 in a dominant car you shouldn't be losing to Bottas with any strategy. Even 1 s at a pitstop is not enough to lose the lead. Credit to Bottas with mighty laps when it mattered, keeping the lead with Raikkonen blocking and later with slower car. In a way (image not practical consequences) Ferrari were lucky that the talking point is Verstappen incident and strategy instead of the above.

Red Bull's chest beating is a bit weird when you see that Ricciardo was ~13 seconds behind Bottas before SC on similar strategy (minus US first stint).

[Manoah2u]

Reverse the situation: how many times has max done this to others was Lewis did today + what do you expect after bahrain (that he waves him through?). Good to see Lewis giving max a taste of his own medicine.

vengeance is never a good thing. doesn't take away that indeed Max has caused similar issues with other drivers,
simply pointing out that it's not as fairdinkum bad all the way for Verstappen.

Please quit the whining over that rbr engine, they have a renault: deal with it. Horner and marko have put themselves in this situation that they're into.

there's no whining, it's the cold hard truth. they are dealing with it but the fact remains the same.
Ferrari has managed to pick up the pace and have an engine that is on par or perhaps even surpassing that of Mercedes by now. Meanwhile, Renault is still out in the dry. At the very least, both FER and MER have qually mode, Renault does not. That is of no fault of RB, that is purely down to Renault, and RB is paying the price for that.

And no, Marko and Horner did NOT put themselves into that situation. Renault singlehandedly dropped the ball in 2014. The only blame for RB is that they did not politically respond to that situation correctly. But that does not take away Renault gigantically dropped the ball, just as Honda is still behind.

Horner and Marko did not make the Renault engine, Renault did. and we're 4 years on now and the Renault engine is still miles behind.

Hence if Renault actually had qually mode, they could have been in the battle for pole, which makes all the difference for the race itself. It is without any doubt that RedBulls race craft is very impressive, and is quite frankly exceeding that of Ferrari and Mercedes.

There is no chance that Renault has more then half a second deficit in qualy mode in China. In fact, Horner said it was 0.45s. That means Max and Ric qualified 0.25 and 0.35s behind Vettel without engine included in equation. I don't see this "RB better race car". How? Had it not been for SC they wouldn't sniff podium, let alone win. They won because they pitted and drove last 20 laps on new softs instead of used mediums. Thats all.

where did i say there's half a second deficit, don't invent things i did not say.

and exactly the thing you are saying is the proof the renault has a defecit. if they had the same engine, they would have battled on pure own merit. apart from that, you seem to miss the point that from the start both Max and Danny were right on the hunt of Ferrari and Mercedes. Also, they're right behind them at Qually, but it's no secret Renault does not have the same qually mode power that both Merc and Ferrari have.

In other words, you're actually contradicting yourself.

[Unc1eM0nty]

I'm surprised how difficult it was to overtake here with two long straights back to back, I'm not including the overtakes due to different tires or tire life here, Vettel was tracking Bottas for a long time, Lewis the same with Kimi although this switched later, and not so much as a sniff or half chance.

I can't remember it being this bad in previous races.

[i70q7m7ghw]

I'm surprised how difficult it was to overtake here with two long straights back to back, I'm not including the overtakes due to different tires or tire life here, Vettel was tracking Bottas for a long time, Lewis the same with Kimi although this switched later, and not so much as a sniff or half chance.

I can't remember it being this bad in previous races.

The cars are just much more closely matched this season. You will always need a significant delta to the car infront to have a chance of overtaking. As long as a faster car is able to come through the field, I don't think there's an issue. The Red Bull cars were clearly faster on a better strategy and they were able to catch and pass the two "dominant" front running teams.

[ferkan]

vengeance is never a good thing. doesn't take away that indeed Max has caused similar issues with other drivers,
simply pointing out that it's not as fairdinkum bad all the way for Verstappen.



there's no whining, it's the cold hard truth. they are dealing with it but the fact remains the same.
Ferrari has managed to pick up the pace and have an engine that is on par or perhaps even surpassing that of Mercedes by now. Meanwhile, Renault is still out in the dry. At the very least, both FER and MER have qually mode, Renault does not. That is of no fault of RB, that is purely down to Renault, and RB is paying the price for that.

And no, Marko and Horner did NOT put themselves into that situation. Renault singlehandedly dropped the ball in 2014. The only blame for RB is that they did not politically respond to that situation correctly. But that does not take away Renault gigantically dropped the ball, just as Honda is still behind.

Horner and Marko did not make the Renault engine, Renault did. and we're 4 years on now and the Renault engine is still miles behind.

Hence if Renault actually had qually mode, they could have been in the battle for pole, which makes all the difference for the race itself. It is without any doubt that RedBulls race craft is very impressive, and is quite frankly exceeding that of Ferrari and Mercedes.

There is no chance that Renault has more then half a second deficit in qualy mode in China. In fact, Horner said it was 0.45s. That means Max and Ric qualified 0.25 and 0.35s behind Vettel without engine included in equation. I don't see this "RB better race car". How? Had it not been for SC they wouldn't sniff podium, let alone win. They won because they pitted and drove last 20 laps on new softs instead of used mediums. Thats all.

where did i say there's half a second deficit, don't invent things i did not say.

and exactly the thing you are saying is the proof the renault has a defecit. if they had the same engine, they would have battled on pure own merit. apart from that, you seem to miss the point that from the start both Max and Danny were right on the hunt of Ferrari and Mercedes. Also, they're right behind them at Qually, but it's no secret Renault does not have the same qually mode power that both Merc and Ferrari have.

In other words, you're actually contradicting yourself.

My point is Renaults deficit in qualy here was 0.45s (as said by Horner). That means other part of the gap was duo to chassis, and not entirely on qualy mode as Marko says. Which in turn means that RB probably doesn't have racepace of Ferrari here, since Max fell from Vettel by 6s, he wasn't exactly keeping up with him. Renault has bigger deficit in qualy then in race, but nothing today showed that without SC RB would win or get podium on merit as the speed just wasn't there. Once they pitted for fresh softer tires then all math is out of the window as there is no chance for Ferrari and Merc do defend against it.