Australian GP 2011 - Albert Park, 24-27 March

[Poleman]

I agree with everything you said there but i just object this:

Was there grounds for him going off track? Yes

What where they? Collision avoidance.

I want to ask,what does collision avoidance mean?
Let me answer this as well.Collision avoidance means that you are going to collide,therefore your overtaking move is going to take place in a part of the track where you simply dont have the required space to effectively pass your opponent without coming in contact with him or without taking an alternate route off the track (which is marked by the white-yellow-blue-pink-red or w/e lines).

You can call the FIA being inconsistent or the Melbourne track for allowing to do so but you cant argue that the collision avoidance is just a lame excuse.If you are going to collide then u cant overtake in that time and space and u should stay put.Unless you expect your opponent to throw an anker and lays the red carpet fot u to pass.Its not only the action but the whole logic behind it thats faulty.

Its FIA's fault that drivers think that "im gonna attempt a pass where i cant and ill call collision avoidance as an excuse and im gonna get away with it".Im not talking about Vettel in special,this goes for any driver on the grid.

Let them race without rules or enforce your rules consistently and discipline the grid.

[Tamburello]

Wishful thinking or not, it was the stewards' thinking too

I meant your comment that "Nuff said" was wishful thinking in this thread...believe it or not, I actually agree with the non-action of the stewards in the Vettel case.

[andrew]

It is only 'nuff said when a moderator jingles their keys for the thread.

But I agree, all that can be said has been said.

[bot6]

About the collision that wrecked Heidfeld's car... It was off camera so nobody knows for sure, but Alguersuari says he has nothing to do with it, and Nick is pretty sure it was a Torro Rosso... On the other hand, there was no major damage on Buemi's car at the finish...

Considering Alguersuari hit both Buemi (no damage) and Schumacher (broken floor, puncture and damage to rear suspension and diffuser) on lap 1, could he have gone for the trifecta without owning up to it? He seems to have had a bit of a rampage on sunday...

[raymondu999]

Maybe he didn't even realize? I mean the adrenaline was probably running, and he was probably more focused on surviving the melee

[bot6]

The collision with Heidfeld was in turn 11 according to Heidfeld, not turn 1 (Buemi) or 3 (Schumi). So he should have gotten his wits back by then...

[raymondu999]

How do you collide at T11 without having a massive sky high jump?

[andrew]

You do it properly!

[raymondu999]

Yeah, but T11 is a massively fast corner, the entry to the fast chicane

[andrew]

Not too sure. I can sort of work it out for the first lap when the field would still be bunched-up so even a corner like turn 11 would be quite a bit slower than normal, but still a strange one not to have a huge prang.

[i70q7m7ghw]

What where they? Collision avoidance.

The end IMO.

I'll say this again, it is not the lead drivers job to avoid a collision with cars behind. If that was the case Hamilton was at fault when Webber crashed in to him last year at Oz? No. Vettel didn't take to the run off to avoid Button, he had no choice because he was carrying too much speed to make the corner.

Heck you can even say Button's move was collision avoidance, if he hadnt gone down the escape road he would have hit Massa.

[Just_a_fan]

Did he gain position by going off the track? No
Did he keep position by going off the track? Yes

Was there grounds for him going off track? Yes

What where they? Collision avoidance.

The end IMO.

Same could be said for Button's ding-dong with Massa. Button had the inside line for the next corner but took the escape route to avoid a collision. Result? Penalty. I think it was the right call by the stewards, BTW, and Button was daft not to just cede the spot immediately. Better to let them both through than risk a 25 sec penalty. But then it's easy to sit in the comfort of an armchair after the event and say such things...

I think the best thing the FIA can do is enforce the "white lines are the track and no going outside them" rule fully. If you're involved in action with another car and you go off the track (as shown by the lines) whether attempting, defending or completing a pass then you cede the place. No arguments. Then everyone knows where they are. If you force another driver off track during all of this in an attempt to win the place? The rules already deal with this.

Alternatively say "anywhere that isn't gravel or a wall is fair game - go and race".

[andrew]

Read the post by Fil (a local to Melbourne) on the previous page. Vettel panalised himself so any FIA penalty would have beeen an unfair double whammy.

[AbbaleRacing77]

Were we watching the same race? im pretty sure i watched alonso reel in and pass mclaren and redbull. Not to mention set fastest lap a number of times on a consistent basis. They do have some tire issues they need to work on but 9th to 4th is damn good and definately not bad pace. Massa is a different story he might of had some issues. We'll find out next race.

yeah not a lot of people watching with following live timing. fanboy remarks.

+1

alonso's times through all three sectors were very purple at different times in the race... the car has speed... the circumstances were just wrong this weekend...

I still believe that Ferrari is at the same level with mclaren if not faster. Alonso clearly admitted that there qualifying setup was conservative... Meaning they probably were planning a 2 stop strategy to beat mclaren and red bull on tire conservation. I'm sure that if they knew they were gonna have to switch to a 3 stop strategy they wouldve put a more aggressive qualifying setup on resulting in a higher qualifying spot ( top 3). Even after falling to 9th and switching strategies Alonso was flying... Do they have more work to do in order to win the title... Absolutely but the car is far from terrible. Was this a huge learning experience in deciding strategy for race and qualifying?.... Absolutely. Tire utilization will be key moving forward. And please don't try and convince me that button wasn't gonna get passed by Alonso ... His penalty was his fault and just a lame excuse for you mclaren fans. Massa is a different issue with clear tire and setup issues. But like I said they learned alot this weekend some got it right and some didn't... Sepang will be a whole new game.

Time to get back to the f150....

[Hangaku]

I read what Fil wrote, and I still say that it makes no difference in this case.

He was travelling faster than Button at the apex of the corner, and he was travelling faster than Button when he re-entered the track. He lost very little time off track, and any that he did lose was negated by the fact that he was travelling too fast to take the corner correctly.