Monaco 2014 - Hamilton wanted immediate pitstop

[SiLo]

I can understand why Mercedes do it, but I don't think either driver will get behind that method. If they are going to battle each other, let each side of the garage have a tactician and let them decide their own strategies. It would make the racing much more fun to watch if we didn't know what the other driver was going to do.

[MercedesAMGSpy]

I can understand why Mercedes do it, but I don't think either driver will get behind that method. If they are going to battle each other, let each side of the garage have a tactician and let them decide their own strategies. It would make the racing much more fun to watch if we didn't know what the other driver was going to do.

Can't agree more. We can predict the strategies in Canada already if not something strange will happen. And the gap to the rest of field is big enough to allow different tactics and strategies.

I think Mercedes want to have control and this is their way to achieve that.

[iotar__]

Can anyone please inform me when that rule about leading driver pitting first was introduced? Lewis has beaten Nico 4 straight times and it would have been five out of 6 races...so if I were Lewis I would enter the pits whenever I wanted. Sorry but I don't buy that policy of leading driver. If Ferrari and Redbull had equally fast cars to Merc, there would be no leading driver picking anything...it would be a battle between Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton...Mercedes has the luxury to race on a level of it own and impose such things. but it may not last more than a year.

Not this again 1. He won couple of times aided by the rule you now complain about - considerably better strategy for a leading driver, I didn't hear many complaints then. Is current awareness and complaining related to a non-story Monaco? After this race interest in free racing between Merc drivers is suddenly sky-rocketing, especially pitstop timing.

2. What 5 out 6? Hardly. If it's Australia - win was a strong possibility but not certain, convenient attributing it to Hamilton without engine problems is wrong. If it's Monaco - I don't know what to tell you. Since it's the third time in two days: ROSBERG IN CHINA HAD NO TELEMETRY, HIS START AND RACE WAS AFFECTED BY IT
3. Good luck with ignoring team strategy and going in based on "I won last four races I can do what I want" logic, or perhaps I should say Hungary 2007 logic.
4. I can't forgive Ricciardo for having a bad start and/or making mistake in qualifying. If he hadn't been slowed down by Raikkonen he would have had every chance of staying close enough behind Hamilton and jumping him during safety car pitstops, very amusing possibility.

[thomin]

I've been having a think about the undercut and it might of worked.

When Lewis and Nico arrived at the pit entrance on the lap of the crash there was very little gap between them, lets say 1 second. Lewis tells the pits he ran over some of Sutil's front wing and he's think he's got a puncture and dives into the pits.

Lets add 25 seconds for the pit stop to the original 1s gap to Nico bringing it to 26s on the road. With Nico having to make a pit stop the actual gap to make up during the undercut is only 1 second. The longer Lewis can stay out of the without the SC coming out the better, but when it does then all cars are restricted to I think a 140% lap time delta. The SC came our shortly after Lewis would have exited the pits, but this would not necessarily have made much difference as the cars would then all be traveling at the same speed back to the pits and the relative gaps would have been maintained. (assuming no intentional blocking)

I think there are two ways in which Lewis could have made the 1 second up; (I'm going to assume he didn't close all of the 1s gap before the SC as there wasn't long enough) One is on the main straight where sector 3 ends and sector 1 starts. Do the first part of sector one flat out, past the pit exit (well below the 140% lap target) then back right off as you head up the hill to bring your sector average back up to 140% but gaining track position in the process.

The other way I see it happening is that the pit lane was going to the get busy, and it would only take a car coming past Nico in his box when he comes off the jacks to loose the 1s advantage.

Do you take a safe second place or do you gamble - Lewis wanted to throw the dice.

I don't see how that would work as Lewis would have had to make up more than 1 second. Maybe it's easier to think of it as distance. I'll make a crude calculation, but you'll get the idea:

One lap in Monaco has 3340m, say a race lap usually takes 80s, that would be 41.75 m/s.

During his 25s pit-stop, Lewis would therefore lose 1043.75m on Nico. Once Nico comes in, Lewis would have to drive slower. 140% equals 112s per lap which comes to 29.82 m/s. During Nico's 25s stop, that comes to 745.55m. So he's 298.21m short, which translates to 10s at 140% additionally to the 1s he had before. No amount of speeding up in between can make up for that.

[Manoah2u]

+2.

and a little bit more.....are we argueing over 25 secs? seriously? IF Hamilton would have pitted, straight away, before safety car - not delving into any 'fair play' stuff -, then he would have pitted before rosberg did. rosberg still had to pit,- that would have resulted an easy overtake because there is no way rosberg could grow enough of a gap for a full pitstop without losing position.

Whether Rosberg would have pitted during the SC period, or afterwards is irrelevant. If hamilton sneaked into the pits, he would have ended up close enough behind rosberg (the cars in front from p5 would still have to pit, too) that he would have overtaken him = equal to winning

no way Rosberg could grow the gap for a full pitstop? thats an interesting and unexpected theory lol

no of course he wouldnt need to grow a gap he would have one already, think about it, you are missing some knowledge either about how F1 works in general or about this situation, maybe that you think the safety car immediately picked up rosberg?

i thought they catched up immediately with the safety car yes, guess i remembered wrong

[Rodzilla]

I've been having a think about the undercut and it might of worked.

When Lewis and Nico arrived at the pit entrance on the lap of the crash there was very little gap between them, lets say 1 second. Lewis tells the pits he ran over some of Sutil's front wing and he's think he's got a puncture and dives into the pits.

Lets add 25 seconds for the pit stop to the original 1s gap to Nico bringing it to 26s on the road. With Nico having to make a pit stop the actual gap to make up during the undercut is only 1 second. The longer Lewis can stay out of the without the SC coming out the better, but when it does then all cars are restricted to I think a 140% lap time delta. The SC came our shortly after Lewis would have exited the pits, but this would not necessarily have made much difference as the cars would then all be traveling at the same speed back to the pits and the relative gaps would have been maintained. (assuming no intentional blocking)

I think there are two ways in which Lewis could have made the 1 second up; (I'm going to assume he didn't close all of the 1s gap before the SC as there wasn't long enough) One is on the main straight where sector 3 ends and sector 1 starts. Do the first part of sector one flat out, past the pit exit (well below the 140% lap target) then back right off as you head up the hill to bring your sector average back up to 140% but gaining track position in the process.

The other way I see it happening is that the pit lane was going to the get busy, and it would only take a car coming past Nico in his box when he comes off the jacks to loose the 1s advantage.

Do you take a safe second place or do you gamble - Lewis wanted to throw the dice.

the relative gaps would not be maintained, its a 26s full speed gap, the physical gap will stay the same but the time gap increases when you slow down

like imagine if you are in a marathon race, your opponent is 50 metres ahead which is lets say 10 seconds gap, if both of you get tired at exactly the same time and start walking, he will still be 50m ahead but you now take 30 seconds to get there walking

the only chance lewis could get out ahead of rosberg was to fly through the first sector ignoring the safety car delta, which would lead to an investigation and penalty

[Rodzilla]

Can anyone please inform me when that rule about leading driver pitting first was introduced? Lewis has beaten Nico 4 straight times and it would have been five out of 6 races...so if I were Lewis I would enter the pits whenever I wanted. Sorry but I don't buy that policy of leading driver. If Ferrari and Redbull had equally fast cars to Merc, there would be no leading driver picking anything...it would be a battle between Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton...Mercedes has the luxury to race on a level of it own and impose such things. but it may not last more than a year.

the lead driver strategy is pretty much field wide including ferrari unless there is a clear 1-2 driver situation

to let the rear driver pit and undercut the lead driver shows favouritism and would not be taken well, so everyone agrees to the lead driver getting the pitstop going into the weekend, except hamilton if he is not the lead driver and at times alonso

[NTS]

I've been having a think about the undercut and it might of worked.
[..]Lets add 25 seconds for the pit stop to the original 1s gap to Nico bringing it to 26s on the road. With Nico having to make a pit stop the actual gap to make up during the undercut is only 1 second.

You overlooked one small detail: The stop for Lewis would add 25 seconds indeed, but when driving to safety car delta the stop for Nico would only be an 18 second loss (140% time -> 25 / 1.4 = 17.8 ) because of the lower speed driven on track. So Lewis would have to make up 7 seconds due to safety car delta AND the 1 second that he was behind anyway. So: no, it would not have worked.

And I think "cheating" the safety car time by driving flat out on the straight and slowing down after would not work since the track actually has about 20 sectors not just 3. The rules state that drivers need to slow down for safety, the delta-time is just added on to that to tell them how much. So if you go flat out on part of the track and it shows in the detailed sector timing that the stewards have I guess you will be handed a penalty. Especially if it is crystal clear that you did it to gain an advantage.

[Richard]

Can anyone please inform me when that rule about leading driver pitting first was introduced?

It's a very common convention, simple and effective at avoiding arguments ... unless you're in a team with team orders (Alonso is faster than you , or Multi 21).

Coulthard talks quite openly that he and Häkkinen had a policy that first driver to the first corner would be the number one driver for the whole race.

[SiLo]

Put simply, Rosberg would have been doing a faster speed for longer, so he would have travelled further. Can we close this thread now? It's been pretty conclusive that Hamilton pitting would not have helped his cause.

[Rodzilla]

bump

lol so now its revealed how hamilton was the one who argued for the pitstop at monaco the team told him to stay out, he didnt offer this information after the race and let the team take the blame

what an idiot he is, he should shut up and let the team do the thinking

[SilverArrow10]

bump

lol so now its revealed how hamilton was the one who argued for the pitstop at monaco the team told him to stay out, he didnt offer this information after the race and let the team take the blame

what an idiot he is, he should shut up and let the team do the thinking

He said straight after the race he was as much to blame as his team.... This rant is almost as bad as those Merc favour Rosberg conspiracy's.

[Rodzilla]

bump

lol so now its revealed how hamilton was the one who argued for the pitstop at monaco the team told him to stay out, he didnt offer this information after the race and let the team take the blame

what an idiot he is, he should shut up and let the team do the thinking

He said straight after the race he was as much to blame as his team.... This rant is almost as bad as those Merc favour Rosberg conspiracy's.

he should have explained after the race that he is stupid and take not equal blame but most or all of it, before the pitstop he said that a decision to stay out was dumb because the others would be on fresh tyres and he would have to try to fight them off, so then he makes the stop and is on fresh tyres but behind in 3rd and his message to his team was "we have lost this race"

my response would have been excellent, i would have told him to shut up and destroyed him because this is what he wanted and this is exactly what he was scared of if he stayed out in front, rosberg and vettel would have to fight him off but suddenly he doesnt like that scenario either

[Cold Fussion]

To the team strategists, the driver is one sensor of many on the car feeding them data. With all the data the team had, they managed to make a poor decision which cost Hamilton the race. The driver does not decide strategy and the second you allow the driver to determine the strategy is the second you lost complete control of the situation. How you can blame the driver for poor strategy calls is beyond me.

[Phil]

What is this discussion doing in a year old topic? Also, there is an ignore function which is rather convinient...