Thanks Edge. However, I still cannot help but wonder why more folks do not seem to be aping the 7X WCC paradigm
Well that’s the million dollar question. I suspect if teams could relive the last 7 years we might see some, or even all of them follow the Merc direction after seeing RPs success last year
In reality RB seem to be the only team who have managed to the get the high rake version to work properly
James Allison insists people have blindly followed Adrian Newey’s direction while Merc flew under the radar with people thinking their engine alone was the reason for their success. Who knows if he’s right, I bet a lot of TDs have been left scratching their heads over this recently
James Allison insists people have blindly followed Adrian Newey’s direction while Merc flew under the radar with people thinking their engine alone was the reason for their success. Who knows if he’s right, I bet a lot of TDs have been left scratching their heads over this recently
I think that's the key point. Newey is held in such high regard that others have assumed that his approach is the right approach.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
It's hard to change the philosophy if you are specialized on one particular concept. It's also not as if one is inherently better than the other - in the end, they are rather close, as seen when comparing the Mercedes and the RedBull last year.
Both have distinct advantages as well as disadvantages over each other.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II #Team44 supporter
Thanks Edge. However, I still cannot help but wonder why more folks do not seem to be aping the 7X WCC paradigm
Well that’s the million dollar question. I suspect if teams could relive the last 7 years we might see some, or even all of them follow the Merc direction after seeing RPs success last year
In reality RB seem to be the only team who have managed to the get the high rake version to work properly
James Allison insists people have blindly followed Adrian Newey’s direction while Merc flew under the radar with people thinking their engine alone was the reason for their success. Who knows if he’s right, I bet a lot of TDs have been left scratching their heads over this recently
Have they managed to get it working properly? I doubt that. Even when they had a below par engine in 2017-2018 their chassis was only near class of the field towards 2018 end.
“Hamilton’s talent is perhaps even more than that of Ayrton or Schumacher or Fernando." - Rubens Barrichello
I think that's the key point. Newey is held in such high regard that others have assumed that his approach is the right approach.
Well it's not the wrong approach. The Mercedes cars have just been too fast for Red Bull for a variety of reasons.
As to teams like Renault who had even less effective high rake cars, with even worse rear end instability problems than Red Bull, who is to say how much better they could have done by adopting a low rake design from 2016 onwards (assuming the 2015 Renault was just a rebadged Lotus and Renault did not have input on it).
Renault made their decision and the end result was their drivers struggling with inconsistent downforce that changed based on pitch, roll, and steering angle. Could Renault have done much better with a low rake design?
That has been the trend, it would be unlikely for the status quo to be shaken up. I just wish he had a harder time getting it instead of just walking it.
Perhaps Mr. Bottas may decide he is bored with circuit racing, and decide to retire from F1 and go rallying? The promotion of Russell to the second Mercedes would spice thing up nicely.
Yeah, because 2020 was the second year in a row where Red bull made a verry difficult car to drive.
Coincidentally it was the second year in a row, where front wing outwash elements were banned. How suspicious.
Of course banning those elements was the right thing for the FIA to do.
Why doesn't the FIA go further and limit the front wing to two elements (that must span the entire length, thereby eliminating the neutral section and the Y250 vortex), and extend the minimum radius rule from the sidepod area to
also cover the bargeboard, to wipe out all those elaborate bargeboards, while also reducing the width of the floor back to the value in 2016? Such regulatory changes to slash downforce could all be done so easily, even without all new rules. Yet the FIA doesn't? Weird.
even with 340,000km on the chassis they're still nice.
Nice car!
Did you ever consider buying the period rival Mercedes SLK 200 Kompressor, SLK 350 or SLK 55 AMG instead? The long-geared Kompressor prioritises torque, while the automatic-only V8 SLK 55 seems to be not as heavy or lumbering as one might expect.
I believe the latter is the type of vehicle Norbert Haug would use to frighten Mercedes F1 program driver recruits (or maybe he used the SL55, which somehow weighs some 300kg more than the SLK55), by driving one-handed around the Nurburgring, for his amusement.
Renault made their decision and the end result was their drivers struggling with inconsistent downforce that changed based on pitch, roll, and steering angle. Could Renault have done much better with a low rake design?
I wouldn't be surprised if the high rake concept is, conceptually, the "best" idea, i.e. if done perfectly it gives the best total downforce and D/L. Perhaps the problem is that it also the most likely to go wrong very easily. If the low rake is less good on the absolute numbers, it would be easy to see why teams would err on the high rake side of the argument. Mercedes have taken the low rake design and made it work, perhaps by making the car huge and thus increasing downforce that way. If the resulting car is less twitchy by its very nature, that's a much better place to be. A case of theoretical numbers vs real world numbers, in effect. I remember Mercedes saying that they looked at moving to the higher rake concept a couple of years ago but that they couldn't get it to work for them. Maybe it really is a "black magic" approach and Newey and his team are the only wizards capable of harnessing it correctly. Although as the 2021 RedBull was a handful at the back end, maybe even they aren't 100% sure about the details.
Of course, we don't know either way which is a shame. I'd really like the FIA to mandate that the teams publicly explain these concepts once we get to the 2022 cars, even if it is through the the filter of the FIA so that individual IP isn't given away.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
even with 340,000km on the chassis they're still nice.
Nice car!
Did you ever consider buying the period rival Mercedes SLK 200 Kompressor, SLK 350 or SLK 55 AMG instead? The long-geared Kompressor prioritises torque, while the automatic-only V8 SLK 55 seems to be not as heavy or lumbering as one might expect.
I believe the latter is the type of vehicle Norbert Haug would use to frighten Mercedes F1 program driver recruits (or maybe he used the SL55, which somehow weighs some 300kg more than the SLK55), by driving one-handed around the Nurburgring, for his amusement.
I don't know if they'd last as long for the same price of ownership. Only one of my engines have blown, and it was entirely my own fault, the one made with mostly factory parts has been a treat. Plus it's so easy to work on this car. I have a diffuser and splitter and a different trunk with a big wing I bolt on when it's in "track mode", on "street mode" it's on factory suspension.
Renault made their decision and the end result was their drivers struggling with inconsistent downforce that changed based on pitch, roll, and steering angle. Could Renault have done much better with a low rake design?
I wouldn't be surprised if the high rake concept is, conceptually, the "best" idea, i.e. if done perfectly it gives the best total downforce and D/L. Perhaps the problem is that it also the most likely to go wrong very easily. If the low rake is less good on the absolute numbers, it would be easy to see why teams would err on the high rake side of the argument. Mercedes have taken the low rake design and made it work, perhaps by making the car huge and thus increasing downforce that way. If the resulting car is less twitchy by its very nature, that's a much better place to be. A case of theoretical numbers vs real world numbers, in effect. I remember Mercedes saying that they looked at moving to the higher rake concept a couple of years ago but that they couldn't get it to work for them. Maybe it really is a "black magic" approach and Newey and his team are the only wizards capable of harnessing it correctly. Although as the 2021 RedBull was a handful at the back end, maybe even they aren't 100% sure about the details.
Of course, we don't know either way which is a shame. I'd really like the FIA to mandate that the teams publicly explain these concepts once we get to the 2022 cars, even if it is through the the filter of the FIA so that individual IP isn't given away.
I have a feeling that if the cars are slower it's only because they're heavier and still understanding the new tires. Not because aero has "regressed". In fact the power unit gains of most manufacturers should in essence neutralize the downforce loss. Also with the floor trimmed back the cars will have a bit less drag.
- Mercedes
- Red Bull
Gap
- Renault
- McLaren
- Aston Martin
- Ferrari
- Alfa Tauri
Gap
- Alpha Romeo
- Williams
- Haas
Anyone thinking Red Bull will challenge Mercedes this year just because they have a better driver in the second car is dreaming. I do think they will take more points off of Mercedes by virtue of Perez being able to keep himself in the Merc pit window to make their strategy choices harder.
After the top two, we have our five midfield teams. The reason I put Renault at the top of the list is that they showed good momentum during the end of last season and if Alonso hasn't lost pace in his year out, they could be poised to have a great season. McLaren is in 4th position because I expect them to lose some pace as a consequence of integrating a power unit the car wasn't designed for. (The McLaren fan in me wants this to be false and for them to gain the tenths that more optimistic fans have predicted, but I have to acknowledge that the opposite is more likely.) Next up, Ferrari is in 5th because I simply do not believe that they can regain enough lost ground with their power unit to jump back to the top of the midfield as they claim they're targeting. Ferrari always talks a big game at the start of a season and inevitably disappoints. Next, we have Aston Martin in 6th place as a consequence of an unexpected extra year with their copied car. A lot of fans seem to forget that their gambit of copying Mercedes could only be successful in the final year of a regulation period. Now that they have to run it for two years instead of it being a stop gap before the new regulations as intended, I expect to see them drop off as they struggle with a design they didn't originate. Rounding out the midfield is AT in 7th because Gasly's win last season still only put them within 30 points of the wounded Ferrari, and I expect Tsunoda to take some time to get up to speed in F1.*
At the back of the pack, we have the usual three suspects. Alfa Romeo stays in 8th from 2020 because they were clearly better than Haas or Williams, but I don't expect them to make any strides. I have Williams ahead of Haas because while Williams went pointless in 2020, it seems clear that Haas are still on a downward tragectory and Williams are beginning to rebuild. With two rookies in the Haas I frankly do not expect them match their 8 points from 2020.
*Caveat to this is that the midfield was so close last year that the order of these five could change from race to race and I could be completely wrong.
1. Sir Hamilton
2. Verstappen
3. Perez
4. Ricciardo
5. Bottas
6. Alonso
7. Vettel
8. Sainz
9. Stroll
10. LeClerc
11. Norris
12. Ocon
13. Gasly
14. Schumacher
15. Raikkonen
16. Tsunoda
17. Russell
18. Giovanazzi
19. Fittipaldi
20. Hulkenberg
21. Mazepin
22. Latifi
Based upon : only the effect of the brew of coffee to my brains, BUT:
Mercedes will obviously not have sunken away from their position and will, as usual, start strong.
RedBull will improve during the season but will greatly benefit from Perez, who will shine
Bottas is in a slump and he'll only get worse, a Covid contraption where King George will take his seat will not do him any favours
Ricciardo will instantly be fast and benefit from crazy races, likely to get podium(s) and perhaps even a win,
Alonso has all of Alpine behind him and will have solid and stable results during the season which will get him high up in the standings
Vettel is rejuvenated with a quick Aston BUT the car will lack some progress
Sainz is going to beat LeClerc, and the fire that'll happen and more sweeping inside Ferrari will hamper the full potential of the improved Ferraris
Stroll possibly grabs a win, but at the same time is going to get the ghost of bad luck knocking on his door constantly
Schumacher will be pretty decent with a pretty good Haas, but tool of the shed Mazepin will hamper progress at the team and cause mayhem
Williams won't improve
Russell wil grab good points when he takes the wheel of Bottas for a cause of Covid.
Hulkenberg will take a seat here and there and MIGHT catch some points.
Mazepin is going to get DSQ, is going to get a race ban or two, and might even get his seat rejected after some crazy stuff, causing mayhem between Haas
and the UralKali camp, leading to have Fittipaldi take his seat and will show better results despite not being a spectacular driver at all.
Oh yes, and Mazepin is going to throw a literal fist into the face of either Schumacher or Latifi, and call a bunch of drivers gay.
Grosjean will be given a practice session at the latter half of the season as a present and at the end of the year he will be given a 2021 Haas F1 car.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
even with 340,000km on the chassis they're still nice.