2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

[Just_a_fan]

The irony about the stewards not wanting to penalise Leclerc in Monza, is that had they, say, made him give up the place having cut the chicane, it wouldn't have ruined the show one little bit. We'd then have had Leclerc in a fast-in-a-straight-line car attacking Hamilton in a fast-in-the-corners car with the former on hard tyres, the latter on mediums that would be getting worse. That would have been theatre to pay for!

[siskue2005]

Wasnt the conclusion after Canada that we (the sport) wanted harder racing with less steward intervention? That’s exactly what we got today.

but within the rules please!
moving under braking, cutting chicanes, moving and weaving 4 to 5 times!
is that what we want??

Hard racing like Lewis and Kimi last year at Monza 2018! that was one perfect example of hard racing, not the F3 and F2 standard defending we saw today

[FrukostScones]

you don't need to be Sherlock to notice who is calling the shots nowadays.

[Just_a_fan]

Just thinking - having seen Leclerc straight line the chicane without penalty, Hamilton should have done the same thing - but made sure his trajectory was on the grass, not the nasty kerbs. He could probably have cut the chicane and got in front, or at least alongside, Leclerc. Penalise that, then, stewards.

[siskue2005]

Just thinking - having seen Leclerc straight line the chicane without penalty, Hamilton should have done the same thing - but made sure his trajectory was on the grass, not the nasty kerbs. He could probably have cut the chicane and got in front, or at least alongside, Leclerc. Penalise that, then, stewards.

Even then Leclerc would have weaved 20 times in curve grande and moved 4 times in the breaking zone to stop Lewis from passing! there was no way to pass him today with the FIA free card for Ferrari this weekend

[jjn9128]

I'm always more prepared to defend Vettel than most on here, but damn, that should have been a straight black flag today.

On the black/white for Leclerc I'd agree with Buxton... the chicane cut he didn't gain so that's fine... the line change/block/chop in Curva Grande was maybe where I think enough was enough, but they didn't penalise Magnussen so maybe that's the acceptable way now...
https://twitter.com/wbuxtonofficial/sta ... 5260985346

[siskue2005]

I'm always more prepared to defend Vettel than most on here, but damn, that should have been a straight black flag today.

On the black/white for Leclerc I'd agree with Buxton... the chicane cut he didn't gain so that's fine... the line change/block/chop in Curva Grande was maybe where I think enough was enough, but they didn't penalise Magnussen so maybe that's the acceptable way now...

So black and white flag is for specific infrignment? like moving under braking one flag, then weaving 4 times another flag etc etc? how many flags one get? is it for one event each? or is it once and then the next infringment is a penalty? what is going on?

https://twitter.com/wbuxtonofficial/sta ... 5260985346

it is not as if he tucked his elbow after that incident, he kept on weaving and block multiple times after that!

[turbof1]

I'm always more prepared to defend Vettel than most on here, but damn, that should have been a straight black flag today.

On the black/white for Leclerc I'd agree with Buxton... the chicane cut he didn't gain so that's fine... the line change/block/chop in Curva Grande was maybe where I think enough was enough, but they didn't penalise Magnussen so maybe that's the acceptable way now...

So black and white flag is for specific infrignment? like moving under braking one flag, then weaving 4 times another flag etc etc? how many flags one get? is it for one event each? or is it once and then the next infringment is a penalty? what is going on?

https://twitter.com/wbuxtonofficial/sta ... 5260985346

it is not as if he tucked his elbow after that incident, he kept on weaving and block multiple times after that!

Masi did say it was for a first minor infringement without consequences. Should a second one happen, it will be a penalty. Apparently this something the teams and drivers wanted, and something we kinda saw to a minor degree last week.
So all the ones screaming "oeehhh, Fiarrari is back in town, biatch!": let's wait and see across more races to see how they judge all the accidents. For me, it's kinda obvious they just loosened up on penalties when we got back from the summer break as a reaction to for instance the Vettel Canada penalty backlash. Since Spa got fairly few accidents, and Monza got quite a few accidents related to a Ferrari car, I think people are drawing way too many conclusions.

For the record, I do feel Vettel should get a race ban for what he did, and Stroll as well.

[jz11]

F2 feature race - Zhou vs Latifi (almost identical to turn 4 incident)
https://youtu.be/eUP2Ml052Cw

Zhou penalised - three-place grid drop

F2 sprint race - De Vries vs S.Camara (identical to turn 1 incident)
https://streamable.com/oa8vr
S.Camara penalised - 5 second penalty

How can Leclerc get away with both of them?!

funny part is it was the stewards

That is a good find.

Does anyone know if the different categories are having different stewards?

here is another find, no penalty for the leading guy (siskue, can you tell us who it was?)

[jz11]

Leclerc has done nothing wrong, Hamilton was again -from the outside oh Lord, from the outside to a corner like that- trying to pull of some theatrical moves to impress the stewards like he did in Canada... he even brake a lot earlier to make it seem dramatic.... look at Sainz vs Albon... what a joke the way some think... Shamilton did try to pull a rabbit out of a hat again... he deserves an oscar

if you watch last years Monza, Hamilton today tried to pull off exactly the same move, didn't work out... I'm not defending LeClerc, that was a very marginal move, Verstappen-style defense, VER doesn't get penalties for these things, so stewards were actually consistent for once

my personal opinion - stewards wanted to avoid race win deciding penalties for moves like these, black/white flag was the right choice, BUT, I think the same black/white flag should be used when they push the other guy off the track on the exit when he is almost wheel to wheel, but Max "made" that legal, so that is how it is now

[Maritimer]

F2 sprint race - De Vries vs S.Camara (identical to turn 1 incident)
https://streamable.com/oa8vr
S.Camara penalised - 5 second penalty

Does that car have traction control of some form? Look at the intermittent tyre marks from the rear tyres as he accelerated from the chicane.

Tire shake/axle hop

[izzy]

from his speech I got to understand that was some Kind of drivers involvement on the decision of this new attitude or "regime" as Siskue called it

yes it was 'everyone' wasn't it. Still do we believe the drivers like it the way it's being done? They might not want some of the Causing A Collision penalties i suppose. But even if they all agree i don't think they like late blocks and being put on the grass. I think the stewards are just using this 'consensus' idea to hang out in their comfort zone.

They're all strict when it's nice and clear cut and not too controversial, like Seb rejoining into Lance, but when it's more of a judgment call with someone popular they bottle it, even if it's actually a lot more dangerous. Like in the video a car gets pushed off to have two wheels on the dirt and kerb in the braking area and he describes the issue as 'bad sportsmanship'! Lol. Not, er, dangerous driving then .

And Masi fell totally into Ant's cutely presented trap admitting that they give penalties based on the outcome not on the behaviour. But obviously most of the time a late block doesn't cause a huge crash. Just sometimes. And the entire idea of discipline is to control behaviour. The outcomes can be nothing or everything.

So they probably think they're doing their best and what they're asked, but it's a fail, if what we want to see is skilful racing where being reasonable isn't a handicap.

[siskue2005]

from his speech I got to understand that was some Kind of drivers involvement on the decision of this new attitude or "regime" as Siskue called it

Seems like Lewis was pleasantly surprised and didn't know the new rule... sho I don't think any driver was involved

[Restomaniac]

from his speech I got to understand that was some Kind of drivers involvement on the decision of this new attitude or "regime" as Siskue called it

Seems like Lewis was pleasantly surprised and didn't know the new rule... sho I don't think any driver was involved

Whilst thinking ‘I can push somebody off? COOL!’.

[falonso81]

Whilst thinking ‘I can push somebody off? COOL!’.

You would think he must have already gotten that message after Max's antics in Austria. Leclerc did get the message right away. Hamilton should stop whining.