2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Venturiation]

Sounded like said they can’t wait for the 0.3 Imola upgrade, he wants the radical option (which he didn’t reveal)?

May as well not even waste money on fabricating that upgrade.

They either understand what RB/AM are doing, but chose not to pursue it because they believe their concept has more potential OR

. . . they do not understand what RB/AM are doing and have been forced to continue to try to develop their zero pod concept, which has continued to look like a pre-2022 spec car with some Frankenstein 2022+ parts.

Or they have problems with their simulations and CFD

Aston martin is using the same components and wind tunnel

[zibby43]

Sounded like said they can’t wait for the 0.3 Imola upgrade, he wants the radical option (which he didn’t reveal)?

May as well not even waste money on fabricating that upgrade.

They either understand what RB/AM are doing, but chose not to pursue it because they believe their concept has more potential OR

. . . they do not understand what RB/AM are doing and have been forced to continue to try to develop their zero pod concept, which has continued to look like a pre-2022 spec car with some Frankenstein 2022+ parts.

Or they have problems with their simulations and CFD

Aston martin is using the same components and wind tunnel

That’s what I’m driving at with scenario 1. Their tools say their concept can achieve ABC, but the on-track results are XYZ.

[Venturiation]

May as well not even waste money on fabricating that upgrade.

They either understand what RB/AM are doing, but chose not to pursue it because they believe their concept has more potential OR

. . . they do not understand what RB/AM are doing and have been forced to continue to try to develop their zero pod concept, which has continued to look like a pre-2022 spec car with some Frankenstein 2022+ parts.

Or they have problems with their simulations and CFD

Aston martin is using the same components and wind tunnel

That’s what I’m driving at with scenario 1. Their tools say their concept can achieve ABC, but the on-track results are XYZ.

But they said they spent last year to fix their tools, and it did work because they removed bouncing
But the car looks just slow and on track looks fine everywhere not like it has a weak point apart being slow

[Sevach]

The season is a write off. Toto said after the race that it was the worst day in Mercedes history.

In the opening stint, The Merc's were 1 second off the pace from lap 1-7. From lap 7-14 they were 2 seconds off the pace.

https://i.postimg.cc/vmhxxHBK/image.png

There is no upgrade in the world that's going to save them this year. RB don't even have to develop their car. Mercedes still might not even catch them at the end of the year.

When you think that's bad just remember, it's quite likely Max held back a lot.
This season looks over already.

[Matt2725]

The car just looks like a barge going around the circuit from the onboards.
There's no obvious signs of it being hard to drive. It's just slow.

Lack of downforce again?

[zibby43]

Or they have problems with their simulations and CFD

Aston martin is using the same components and wind tunnel

That’s what I’m driving at with scenario 1. Their tools say their concept can achieve ABC, but the on-track results are XYZ.

But they said they spent last year to fix their tools, and it did work because they removed bouncing
But the car looks just slow and on track looks fine everywhere not like it has a weak point apart being slow

The weird thing is, they said they hit their off-season performance targets.

[Matt2725]

That’s what I’m driving at with scenario 1. Their tools say their concept can achieve ABC, but the on-track results are XYZ.

But they said they spent last year to fix their tools, and it did work because they removed bouncing
But the car looks just slow and on track looks fine everywhere not like it has a weak point apart being slow

The weird thing is, they said they hit their off-season performance targets.

Well they are faster than last year by a fair margin and the car doesn't bounce. They obviously didn't anticipate Red Bull and especially Aston making as much progress as they did.

[rifrafs2kees]

It's a sunk cost conundrum. To me, the best strategy is
1. wrap up whatever improvements are in gestation for the current design and bank the 3/10th or whatever.
2. In the meantime, start working on redbull concept now as it's unlikely that a better concept exists under this ruleset.

[Big Tea]

The traction on this car is so poor its amazing
Alonso was driving a car from another planet in S2 against Lewis

Yep, it feels like watching a heavy boat.

One time it does look like a barge, but later it can look 'on its toes' an not sure where it is going.
Possibly some balance problem? Suspension or Aero then?

It is not beyond possibility that a small 'tweek' can sort it. It would not add anything to the car but make it possible to reliably use what is available now.

[zibby43]

But they said they spent last year to fix their tools, and it did work because they removed bouncing
But the car looks just slow and on track looks fine everywhere not like it has a weak point apart being slow

The weird thing is, they said they hit their off-season performance targets.

Well they are faster than last year by a fair margin and the car doesn't bounce. They obviously didn't anticipate Red Bull and especially Aston making as much progress as they did.

Fair. It’s not just Merc that have floundered. Ferrari looks “bleh” as well relative to last year.

[zibby43]

It's a sunk cost conundrum. To me, the best strategy is
1. wrap up whatever improvements are in gestation for the current design and bank the 3/10th or whatever.
2. In the meantime, start working on redbull concept now as it's unlikely that a better concept exists under this ruleset.

Re: 2) do they know how to make that concept work? If not, that’s a lost cause.

Dan Fallows’ involvement at AM cannot be underestimated.

[mzso]

The worst part of this car is that it doesn't look bad, maybe apart from the last corner. This leaves one clueless where to find more time.

If this is to be believed, they have very poor traction, and maybe poor rotation as well.

Maybe some power advantage for Honda? On the straights the RB pulls away from the downforce-lacking Mercedes as well.

[F1Krof]

Why not bring Paddy Lows back? He was good around 2014-17. And also, bring back Aldo Costa.

[Matt2725]

The season is a write off. Toto said after the race that it was the worst day in Mercedes history.

In the opening stint, The Merc's were 1 second off the pace from lap 1-7. From lap 7-14 they were 2 seconds off the pace.

https://i.postimg.cc/vmhxxHBK/image.png

There is no upgrade in the world that's going to save them this year. RB don't even have to develop their car. Mercedes still might not even catch them at the end of the year.

When you think that's bad just remember, it's quite likely Max held back a lot.
This season looks over already.

He admitted in a Viaplay interview after the race that his race engineer Lamibiase had to keep telling him to stop pushing and stick to a delta. He said he was pretty much cruising after the first stop. Rough for the rest of the field no doubt.
Although I'm surprised he would admit that publicly. He wouldn't want to invite any targetted rule changes.

[Matt2725]

Why not bring Paddy Lows back? He was good around 2014-17. And also, bring back Aldo Costa.

They also should have thrown a load of money at Andy Cowell to rethink he's departure from the sport. His tenure at Ilmor/HPP gave them that rocket of an engine in the first place.