Pinnacle of another sport - Sailing

[notsofast]

Elsewhere on this forum there's a sometimes lively debate about whether F1 is still the pinnacle of motorsport. For those of you interested in pinnacles and technical advances, may I suggest you take a look at the America's Cup, currently being contested between two flying catamarans with fixed-wing sails. Here's one place where you can take a look. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/user/AmericasCup

[MOWOG]

I for one follow the America's Cup action. I live near Newport RI and so AC action was a big part of my formative years. Those were the days when a a boat travelling up to 17 knots through the water was heady stuff! Now the new AC 72 boats with their hydrofoils are capable of speeds in excess of 50 mph! They are truly every bit as technically advanced as any Formula One or LMP car.

But the essence of the competition has not changed. It's the same in AC as it is in the Optimist prams used to train young sailors - he who wins the start wins the race. So far, the American defender, with Jimmie Spithill at the helm, has had a dismal time starting and the results have been predictable.

The new boats are wicked fast. But I for one am not sure that the racing is significantly better than it was in the days of the classic and graceful 12 Meter boats.

BTW, for those of you who may not know the difference between a boat and a ship, it is easy to figure out. You can put a boat ON a ship, but you can't put a ship ON a boat!

[autogyro]

You can 'ship' a boat though
You cant 'boat' a ship.

Which reminds me.
Its an 'aeroplane', not a plane or god forbid an airplane.

[Pup]

That's the MV Black Marlin, shipping a ship. (It can also ship planes, airplanes and even - as a clever man can tell from the photo above - autogyros.)

Here is her sister, the Blue Marlin, shipping two ships, with room to ship two more...



One might wonder how you get a ship onto a ship.

A: you sneak up on it...

[autogyro]

I didnt say you couldn't ship a ship pup but point taken.

Very interesting images thanks.

[bhall]

One can ship all sorts of stuff.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL4lSavSepc[/youtube]

[MOWOG]

Oh, dear. I feel a thread hijacking in progress.

[bhall]

Oh, dear. I feel a thread hijacking in progress.

Just to bring this back a bit on-topic, the America's Cup is certainly the pinnacle of politics in sport. The "governing body" for the sport, as it were, is the New York Supreme Court, and the contestants love to stand before its judges to argue over rules, venues, or anything else the teams' s̶h̶y̶s̶t̶e̶r̶s attorneys can do to create an advantage. It makes dealings between the teams, the FIA, and FOM, look like a walk in the park. The 2010 event was an excellent example.

(Source: For some reason, I really enjoyed the movie Wind.)

On the technical side, didn't Adrian Newey once say that he'd like to design AC yachts?

[MOWOG]

Fluid dynamics are fluid dynamics are fluid dynamics. Adrian Newey could probably excel in America's Cup just as well or better than he has excelled in Formula One. And with the new technical regs coming into being next season de-emphasizing aero, AN might well decide to take his skills elsewhere, which would probably be a great relief to the likes of Ferrari and McLaren and Lotus and Mercedes!

And thanks for the Wikepedia article on the legal wrangling surrounding the Cup. While reading the article, I was reminded of the joke about how medical research firms are now using lawyers instead of lab rats for their medical experiments partly because the researchers don't get so emotionally attached to the lawyers but primarily because there were some things the rats REFUSED to do!

As a former practicing attorney, I can say honestly that the day I decided to quite whoring myself out as legal counsel was a very good day for me. I can truly say that I was able to raise my standing in the community by transitioning into becoming a used car salesman!

[Tommy Cookers]

I Now the new AC 72 boats with their hydrofoils are capable of speeds in excess of 50 mph!

FWIW from our limited TV coverage the foils seem to me to be used only on one point of sailing (some broad reach ?)
can someone kindly explain when they use and when they don't use them ?
40 kt from a 12 kt wind gives relative velocity that strains my comprehension

[strad]

it's a trip ain't it..the faster they go,,the faster the air going over the foil so it then goes even faster,,,something along those lines. They explained it..They made it sound like three times the wind speed was some kind of limit,,but don't know that for sure...alll I know is that the Kiwis are kickin ass.

[MOWOG]

The foils are used at all times. The boat has to be moving through the water at about 17 knots to generate enough lift to lift 8000 lbs of boat out of the water. If they can achieve 17 knots +/- upwind, then they use the foils upwind. The pinnacle of the exercise is to tack and keep the boat up on one foil or the other. The Kiwis are better at this than the Oracle team.

Usually, any point of sail off the wind will be sufficient to bring the foils into play, unless the wind is very, very light.

I listened intently to the explanation about how the boat generates its own wind, thus allowing it to exceed actual wind speed, but I got totally lost and have to admit I do not understand it. I also do not understand how a foil about the size of a small towel can generate enough lift to raise an 8000 lb boat out of the water. But I've seen it with my own eyes so it has to be true. The also say the bumble bee can't fly........

All of this talk reminds me of the days when some very knowledgeable people INSISTED that a race car could NOT exceed 1 G of lateral acceleration.

[notsofast]

One thing I like about this competition is that the boats seem to be fairly evenly matched, and that one team appears to be winning the competition mainly on skill. It would have been much less interesting if the kiwis simply had the better boat.

[bhall]

From Omer Wing Sail Ltd.



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRQJRhPg ... 7tyGgjTmqA[/youtube]

[strad]

all I know is I think it's way cool and I love it when they fly.