Rear wings

[Alcomi]

Hi there,
A friend of mine just linked me to this page and it seems like the place i was searching. I'm an Aeronauthics student from Spain. If everything goes well (let's hope it does) i'll be finishing my studies next June. Thing is, i'm currently working on a CFD project about the rear wing of a F1 car. More precisely, i have to study the aerodynamics of a double rear wing. Once i'm done with this simulation, i'll be modelling other parts of the F1.
The main problem is i'm finding it impossible to find rear wings or F1 car models so I can start working with them on gambit and then fluent.
I'd be really grateful if anyone could just email me their model, either the rear wing or the whole F1 car. I'll be posting here the results of the simulation if you are interested, and obviously you'll appear in the bibliografy of my project, for what that's worth. I realize i have little to offer in exchange of a model, but I'll really appreciate any kind of help. I would try to do my own geometry if i were good enough with AutoCad or Gambit, but as you have already guessed, i'm not (thank my teachers for that).
Of course, any kind of advice concerning the model or the simulation is also welcome.
Thanks in advance

[luisandregg]

What's Gambit, Alcomi?

[Monstrobolaxa]

Well....the problem in designing a rear wing is that the flow over it depends a lot on the follow in the front part of the car.

I'm designing a complete F1 car according to the 2008 tech regulations...and will test is using Fluent or Star CD.

Here is more or less the way I 've organized it:

- until September 2006 - mechanical design;
- from September 2006 to August 2007 - Aerodesign;
- August 2007 to June 2008 - CFD testing and development.
- June and July 2008 - report....

I'm finishing Aeronautical Engineering in July 2008! So this is my end project. I have already 3 teachers (1 is a CFD specialist and the others are Aero teachers) from the Aeronautics Department of my Uni interested in orientating my project!

[manchild]

Monstro, pinch some pitbabe for me when you get in F1

(unless Max bans them or limits bra size)

[tf1]

hahaha if you think Max is going to ban pitbabes, he's gonna have to do it over Bernie's dead body.

In terms of aero, remember that the aero is really affected by the tires as well. I think it is going to be very difficult to start with the rear of the car and go forward... I think it makes more sense to start with the front wing and go back. That way, you can add components. Also keep in mind that the vast majority of downforce these days comes from the flow under the body, not the wings.

Regarding models, I think it'll be near impossible. You can find some very dumbed down ones in other software packages. One that comes to mind is ADAMS/Motorsports. It has a body shell of a Indy car or something similar in one of the demo assemblies. You could theoretically take something like that file and read it into your meshing program.

[miqi23]

You should do a good job, I am surprised they allow students to carry on a project for three years! Hope you dont burn out in the middle mate.

Good Luck!

Well....the problem in designing a rear wing is that the flow over it depends a lot on the follow in the front part of the car.

I'm designing a complete F1 car according to the 2008 tech regulations...and will test is using Fluent or Star CD.

Here is more or less the way I 've organized it:

- until September 2006 - mechanical design;
- from September 2006 to August 2007 - Aerodesign;
- August 2007 to June 2008 - CFD testing and development.
- June and July 2008 - report....

I'm finishing Aeronautical Engineering in July 2008! So this is my end project. I have already 3 teachers (1 is a CFD specialist and the others are Aero teachers) from the Aeronautics Department of my Uni interested in orientating my project!

[kkobayash]

monstro, thats sounds pretty sweet, you gotta keep everyone updated on how ur going over the nxt couple of yrs. I want to also do something like that in my final year thesis, next yr. Maybe abit simpler tho, like just front wing elements or studying the differences in CDG and regular wing for 06 season, something along those line.

just wondering, do you have ne ideas as to how i would go about starting this?? Like wat sort of planning goes into it and then the process from there? Any help and ideas would be really appreciated, as at the moment im kinda jsut clutching at straws...

Neways, hope ur project goes well.

[Alcomi]

Well, that's the hell of a project you have there Monstro. We're not suppossed to work on our ending project until last year, so obviously we have to do sth much more concrete. Anyway, good luck with your project!
I've also seen some of you suggest I should start with the front wing. Seems pretty logical, since the flow will be really different by the time it passes through the rear wing. Problem is I have to compare the flow after a CDG and a regular rear wing. I'm afraid if I started with the front wing I would not have enough time to finish this project (keep in mind It has to be finished by end June). So I'll have to stick to my initial planning.
Thanks for your advice anyway!

[kilcoo316]

Don't worry about not simulating the front of the car - you have to simplify the problem to run it. Just specify a higher than normal freestream turbulence level (like around 10% or so)


But you will need to model the diffuser and its wake. The interaction of the diffuser and rear wing will be pretty crucial.

I'd suggest you e-mail the FIA and see if you can get any data from them, admittedly, its a long shot, but if you don't ask you'll never know. Max has responded to letters before, so its not unheard of

I'll ask a friend who did an MSc in Southampton - they did lots of wind tunnel tests on front wings, and I guess they might have looked at rear wings too. We never do any of that here

[Monstrobolaxa]

Well they actually only let us work 1 year on the project....but I've started in advance! I'm only supossed to start the project in September 2007! But since my project is slightly complex I've already started working on my own....(here in Portugal aeronautical engineering is a 5 year degree...and not 3 years like in most places).

Well...conserning the way to go...well I started out thinking of creating the driver in the CATIA ergonomics section....and building the car around the driver! ....not the best way to go...so basicly I'm going to start by creating the regulation blocks.....basicly reading the tech regs and according to regs drawing blocks...and assemblying them...in this way at the end I'll end up with a complex block, with this I'll know that for my car to be legal all parts will have to be within the blocks!

Since I don't have to worry with suspension geometry or with the cars polar momentum...I'll choose a wheelbase value...and stick with it! So I'll create a "blackbox" engine (nothing inside it), just the exterior...then I create the gearbox...and see what the length of the monocoque can be....etc etc etc. Before designing the monocoque I'll design the fuel cell....and only then I'll start the monocoque.

[miqi23]

To all doing the fancy F1 project!!!

A few things I believe you should consider, since it would be a CFD project by the sounds of it and would involve aerodynamics, Why on earth are you constructing the full driver inside the cockpit? You dont realise but once it comes to meshing the model you will CRY for help mate. Be clever and try excluding all the useless details. Include the drivers helmet and not his feet mate!

Hope this is clear and if you need more advice give me a shout! Its the CFD model you need not the CAD model!

Thanks

[kilcoo316]

Monstrobolaxa:


What kind of computer resources are you going to have access to?


To produce useable simulations of a complete car will require the far side of 10 million cells. In Fluent that'll be around 10 GB of RAM. And it will take you absolute ages to Mesh up in something like ICEM.

If you intended to do it in Gambit - forget it, you've no chance of getting an accurate mesh!

[miqi23]

Monstrobolaxa:


What kind of computer resources are you going to have access to?


To produce useable simulations of a complete car will require the far side of 10 million cells. In Fluent that'll be around 10 GB of RAM. And it will take you absolute ages to Mesh up in something like ICEM.

If you intended to do it in Gambit - forget it, you've no chance of getting an accurate mesh!

That true, even though ICEMs patch independent mesh will give you a bit of trouble, its not easy as it sounds. I am not trying to discourage you but you have to be realistic about what you are trying to do.

If you exclude the internal details like the engine and the drivers body you should atleast get six million cells which would still be coarse and would need 6GB of RAM. So think about it.

Thanks

[Monstrobolaxa]

Not sure the computer resources...but I talked to the CFD teacher from my department and he said that they do have the capacity of doing this kind of model, though if I don't want to get to slow (taking over 24 hours of processing) not to go over 40 million cells.

Yup I know having the driver will add the cells, already figured it out.

I'm still going to use a driver model to design the car, at least to make it "ergonomic"...and will test without him in CFD.

[sharad anand]

hello.....
you are doing a very good project,good luck for that.iam final year mechanical engineering student.. we are doing our project on aerodynamic analysis of rear wing of F1 car,and to compare the present design with CDG and test it in the wind tunnel by making the model of both the design.
so can u help us in this regard by giving us the dimension of theCDG wing....and can u tell us how to go about iit.......