Ferrari's carbon rim ring

[mep]

I have heard that Ferrari is using carbon rear rims.
I can't realy believe this.
Does anybody know someting about this?

[Tp]

I have heard that Ferrari is using carbon rear rims.

Where did you here that from?

[tpe]

I have heard that Ferrari is using carbon rear rims.

I did. But it's not the whole rim carbon made, just the outside. Is that possible?

[Spencifer_Murphy]

Yes there is a topic on the forum about it...i dont know exactly where

The wheel is made of magnesium as usual, however on the lip of the rim there is a carbon "flange" which has been glued onto the rim using some sort of bonding agent.

Ferrari claim it is there to aide their brake cooling and is not an aerodynamic device (this had been tried many times before in F1 and Indycar and was banned by the governing bodies ruling that wheels "Must be of a homogenous construction" i.e all of the same material).

The fact of the matter is that Ferrari's wheel is therefore NOT of homogenous construction and therefore illegal whether for brake cooling or not. This has subsequently caused a fair bit of controvosy. However the other thread is where the legality of it should be discussed.

I suppose it was over-looked by critics because they were too busy complaining about their "flexi-wings" lmao.

[manchild]

viewtopic.php?t=2095&highlight=carbon+rim

Completely illegal, completely...

[Tom]

Sorry Manchild but I dissagree with you.

I think that if the FIA themselves allow it, other teams should do it too. F1 is about technical advances from whichever team. If Mclaren had done this would you make such a fuss? Bear in mind that the FW14b was considered 'cheating' (and no doubt there were illigal aspects hidden in innocent looking areas) but now it is thought of as the F1 hero car.

I think its a bit childish that you are ribbing a new F1 advantage just because you don't like the guys who thought it up.

[Steven]

Those rim extras are a good thought, but I cannot understand how in the world that can be illegal. Sure if we noticed it, the FIA supervisors will have too, and if they deem it legal is is for every team on the grid.

However, I think these things will only be used during qualifying. They would probably like more brake cooling during the race.

EDIT: Apparently also used during race, although only on rear wheels

[Tp]

In the rules in states that the rims "Must be of a homogenous construction" which the Ferrari has, but with the addition of a carbon flange, so unless there's a rule stating otherwise surely it must be legal

[Scuderia_Russ]

Those rim extras are a good thought, but I cannot understand how in the world that can be illegal. Sure if we noticed it, the FIA supervisors should have too,

Exactly Tomba, they are obviously not "illegal, completely illegal"

[manchild]

Formula One cars must have four, uncovered wheels, all made of the same metallic material. Front wheels must be between 305 and 355mm wide, the rears between 365 and 380mm.

With tyres fitted the wheels must be no more than 660mm in diameter (670mm with wet-weather tyres). Measurements are taken with tyres inflated to 1.4 bar.

FIA Regulations in detail

ARTICLE 12: WHEELS AND TYRES
12.1 Location:
Wheels must be external to the bodywork in plan view, with the rear aerodynamic device removed.
12.2 Number of wheels:
The number of wheels is fixed at four.
12.3 Wheel material:
All wheels must be made from an homogeneous metallic material.
12.4 Wheel dimensions:
12.4.1 Complete wheel width must lie between 305 and 355mm when fitted to the front of the car and between 365 and 380mm when fitted to the rear.
12.4.2 Complete wheel diameter must not exceed 660mm when fitted with dry-weather tyres or 670mm when fitted with wet-weather tyres.
12.4.3 Complete wheel width and diameter will be measured horizontally at axle height, with the wheel held in a vertical position and when fitted with new tyres inflated to 1.4 bar.
12.4.4 Wheel bead diameter must lie between 328 and 332mm.

Ferrari has rear rims made in two pieces glued together (magnesium rim and carbon fiber ring) which collides with "12.3 Wheel material: All wheels must be made from an homogeneous metallic material" because there you have magnesium, glue and carbon fiber as components of the wheel.

If someone would say that ring isn't part of the rim than it colides with "Formula One cars must have four, uncovered wheels" because CF ring than isn't part of the rim but additional device that partly covers the rim. Both of those - wheel covers and additional aero elements attached to wheels are banned.

[zac510]

I read the 'wheel covers' part of the law as outlawing bodywork over the wheel to preserve the open-wheel part of the series.

Anyway do you have a precedent to support your belief that the attachment is illegal? When the rules are hazy, especially FIA rules, we rely on a precedent or clarification to clarify the rule. None exists that outlaws this device.

So now they have been proven legal, all other teams should fit them and reduce their rear brake ducts by x-percent to drop the drag.

I have another precedent anyway - in FWD touring cars the teams sometimes fit covers to the rear wheels to retain heat in the small brakes.

[Scuderia_Russ]

What is your reasoning behind the F.I.A. and none of the teams having anything to say against it then?

[manchild]

I have another precedent anyway - in FWD touring cars the teams sometimes fit covers to the rear wheels to retain heat in the small brakes.

Rim can be made of several pars but all parts must be made "from an homogeneous metallic material". If Ferrari made that out of same material as the rest of the rim than it would be legal but they are obviosly not doing so because CF is much lighter than magnesium. Also, magension elements in all FIA reacing series must not be thinner than 3mm while CF can be and obviously is when it matters that ring.

[zac510]

Then you shouldn't be allowed to put a sticker or paint on it either!

[Tom]

As far as I'm concerned if the FIA have not raised the matter themselves it is legal.

If your so bothered Manchild, instead of trying to convince us write a nice letter to the FIA and Ferrari explaining your point and see what action they take.

Besides I doubt they give any performance advantage.