diff in keel

[yelowca]

I don't really understand the differnece b/w the different types of keel that teams are using. Some are useing no keel, single keel, twin keel, and i think there is one v-keel. Can someone please explain.

[kkobayash]

viewtopic.php?t=1691&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[manchild]

Check this link too viewtopic.php?t=1766&highlight=keel

[Ciro Pabón]

Twin keel


V-keel


Single keel


Greatest s-keel (THIS is a joke, just in case. Yes, I know, somebody is missing, but I couldn't find a photo of these four guys AND Brawn. What did you say? Kimi who?)

[Tp]

They're all compromised in some way or another, but if I designed an F1 car I think it would have to be no keel, due to the aero advantage

[kilcoo316]

They're all compromised in some way or another, but if I designed an F1 car I think it would have to be no keel, due to the aero advantage

The advantage is no-where near as much as some would make out.

I'd make sure I had a stiff and rigid suspension system with optimal geometry first before taking aero considerations into it.


Proof - Who has zero keel?

Renault - nope
Ferrari - nope

2 of the top 3 in the WCC, and probably the two fastest cars on the grid.

[Ciro Pabón]

Well, then. No-keel MP20. Seems Newey disagrees. Or is it a double keel/no keel? This devilish Newey... what in heaven did he do?



I have heard (but won't repeat ) that Toyota and Williams also have a no-keel design. Look for your own pictures, you are a big boy.

But, you know? I say: give me numbers instead of opinions. BTW, not that I know any numbers!

So I would start a design "without limits". Just find out the simulation numbers for the four options and the decission takes care of itself. This and a failure-mode checking...

On some forums I have seen opinions on how the keel can affect the camber setting precission and in turn the heat on the tires and in turn on the brand of the tires, but they seem a little "science-fictionish". As I said: Setup is the real engineering! The rest is science.

[Tom]

This is the best I've found. I discovered it a while ago when I was looking for the same info.

http://www.scarbsf1.com/keels/formula_1_keels.htm

I have seen a 'scarbs' on this forum. I sit the same guy?

[zac510]

On some forums I have seen opinions on how the keel can affect the camber setting precission and in turn the heat on the tires and in turn on the brand of the tires

That is true, it certainly can. Not in a static position, in the manner of the setup you note, but dynamically, as the wheel moves through the arc of its travel.

But the recklessness at which some teams appear to have abandoned this property seems to make me reconsider the aerodynamic importance of the keel.

[Ciro Pabón]

Thanks, Tom. Nice article. And thanks, zac, now the forums (and Tom article) seem to make more sense.

[manchild]

I have seen a 'scarbs' on this forum. I sit the same guy?

Yes, same person.

[Tp]

The advantage is no-where near as much as some would make out................ Proof - Who has zero keel?

In a way it is pretty pointless to say v-keel is the best or zero keel is the best.

Just look at Ferrari, not many teams use the single-keel design, but they've managed to win 6 back-to-back constructors championships. This doesn't mean the single-keel is best, it just means they perfected its design to reduce its disadvantages, by integrating it with the whole of the front end to extract all of its possible performance gains from its design.

It's the same with zero-keel you have to adapt the front end of the car to work in conjunction with this design, to fully reap the aero benefits.

The reason I said I would choose the zero-keel is because I felt it had a much greater potential than the others (as long as it is incorporated into the design of the car.)