Is tyre wear adjustable by setup, or design?

[raymondu999]

Hey all. Just wondering, since some cars seem to be better capable of nursing/wearing tyres. Is it possible to set up a car to not wear as much? Or is it much more of an issue tackled during the design phase?

[Jersey Tom]

Keep in mind, a lot of tire wear and abuse is from the driver, and/or driver coaching. Setup can move tire utilization around, but ultimately the driver is responsible for the throttle, brake, and steering application.

[raymondu999]

Hey there. I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand what you mean by "coaching?" So setup can move tire utilisation around... I assume (most of the time) that more tire utilisation would mean more laptime but quicker degradation? How about the initial design? I assume that can probably be geared in a certain direction on how fast they wear tyres down?

[RacingManiac]

How the driver is taught to drive. A lot of the time how a driver has developed through the rank depends on his engineer's approach. Some would just look at lap time and do whatever is faster for the driver, while other would offer input to what might be faster in terms of changing a driver's input.....

[marcush.]

to get a full second out of a car in pure car potential is a huge effort in any type of racing if your machine is a seriously developped piece of kit.

The race driver is always the bit that has some potential to be unearthed by special circumstances ...he may raise to the occassion ,see Jaime A, all of a sudden capable of running quicker than anyone with a 7times world champion appearing big in his mirrors..


the point is there is more than one ways to get a time from the car and you can ruin the tyres in 5 laps doing exactly the same times than the guy next to you who has 4 tyres barely touched.
Had this many times ..and those who abuse the material take very long to realise to relax and slow down to become faster.. [-o<

[Belatti]

A good example I know was in TC:

There is a track called Rafaela, that is an oval with two banked curves, but with 3 chicanes:



The TC cars use 1 to 1.5º negative static camber on most tracks. In Rafaela, due to the banked curves they go as far as 2º. Some teams have tried 3º and it works perfect for qualy, laptimes improve... but after 3 laps the internal part of the contact patch overheats and there is a big risk of tyre failure, not only tyre wear.

This make me wonder about the problem Michelin had in the 2005 USA GP.

[marcush.]

Hockenheim short circuit :

if you go for a symetric setup ,your front left tyre will die .like butter in the sun...adjust corner weights and camber to help the outside sholder and you will
not only be faster but the front tyre will miraculously survive a complete racedistance...


so of course you can setup a car to make the tyres live longer.Tracks are different ,i remember the A1 track in Austria ...as a place where our car wich was understeering as a dog all of a sudden was pure and clear oversteer everywhere..not having touched anything in terms of setup...

aalso design :you could deliberately design the front track narrower than the rear track and be sure to create understeer.Or you could design a front suspension wich is promoting big time camber change to positive on the outer wheels ,eating up the tyres in no time.. of course you can adjust tyre wear by design.
Just put compliance in your suspension (rubber bushings)and you will see how the tyre temps explode without the driver even pushing...tyre wear ..make your guess or look at the chunking of those expensive Michelin slicks..

[raymondu999]

Hey all. Saw this on Scarbs' blog:

"It might be that the team are protecting their tyres with an excess of downforce"

However, Alan Permane says in his Q&A (available on the f1 website) that:
"you can't simply add downforce to get the tyres working " for the r30 in sepang. This implies that more downforce works the tyres more.

While one says downforce preserves the tyres the other says that the downforce works it... I'm confused...

[sticky667]

days of thunder!

- Tyres is what wins a race. - What are you talking about?
If you can't run without melting the tyres, we can't finish a race.
What do you want?
Run 50 laps any way you like, then 50 laps like I want you to.
Give me an honest run. If you do, I'll beat you.
Now we're going to do it 50 laps my way.
When you were racing Indy cars, the tyres were twice as wide -
- and the car weighed half as much. Now it's the opposite.
You're burning them up. They melt and get greasy.
You slip and slide and you're out of control. Let's go!
His way, my way. I was six seconds faster.

[Jersey Tom]

Hey all. Saw this on Scarbs' blog:

"It might be that the team are protecting their tyres with an excess of downforce"

However, Alan Permane says in his Q&A (available on the f1 website) that:
"you can't simply add downforce to get the tyres working " for the r30 in sepang. This implies that more downforce works the tyres more.

While one says downforce preserves the tyres the other says that the downforce works it... I'm confused...

Since when is anything a clear cut answer?

Also, don't believe everything you hear

[raymondu999]

Hey all. We know quite well that a car such as the RB6 seems to be very hard on its tyres. Is this something that can actually be addressed in the car's upgrades, or does it need a complete rework of the existing car philosophy?

[marcush.]

Hey all. We know quite well that a car such as the RB6 seems to be very hard on its tyres. Is this something that can actually be addressed in the car's upgrades, or does it need a complete rework of the existing car philosophy?

it is not clear cut ,especially when downforce gets into the eqauation.and these tyres are designed for the downforce levels ,so they actually need the downforce to be worked enough to come alive.
If your wheels are not guided precisely as close as possible to their design (fluctuations of deviation from optimum path or load ,obviously they will wear quicker or slower and changing their grip .
If RedBull can exploit the tyres more in terms of cornering ability or traction ,it seems reasonable that they wear out quicker as they perform more work in time.
If a car makes time without resorting to big time cornering gs for elongated time it is very likely that this will abuse the tyres less then someone who is gaining time trough sustained high cornering Gs .. just as an idea..

[raymondu999]

another question though - are tyre heating and working inherently linked? We seem to have the mercedes,and red bull, for example. the bull just eats its tyres and heats them. Merc sometimes have tyre heatup problems, but can preserve the tyres for ages. Is it possible to work it in a way which makes sure the tyres are heated, but not worn quickly, and especially, kept in the working temps? Or are the two inherently linked so teams must reach a compromise?

[marcush.]

another question though - are tyre heating and working inherently linked? We seem to have the mercedes,and red bull, for example. the bull just eats its tyres and heats them. Merc sometimes have tyre heatup problems, but can preserve the tyres for ages. Is it possible to work it in a way which makes sure the tyres are heated, but not worn quickly, and especially, kept in the working temps? Or are the two inherently linked so teams must reach a compromise?

I´m not sure that Merc is preserving the tyres or the drivers by not pushing is making them last...
Heat is the enemy of the Tyre the hotter it gets the quicker it detoriates.Simple experiment:
put 3 degrees of toe in your tyres and drive along.You will have quick has hell soaring temps in your tyres without even turning a corner.So tyre temp is not necessarily a function of pushing ,if you have a bit too much compliance in your suspension this will also raise tyre temps ,as does a certain ways of tuning the dampers does raise or lower tyre temps.
To my understanding it is very hard to be quick and still have low tyre temps ,the
holy grail is to get the tire to working as quick as possible without overheating them then in the stint.

[alelanza]

If a car makes time without resorting to big time cornering gs for elongated time it is very likely that this will abuse the tyres less then someone who is gaining time trough sustained high cornering Gs .. just as an idea..

Not sure i understand the Gs part of this explanation. Presumably, if two cars take the same racing line, whichever one goes quicker will be subject to higher Gs.