MP4-25 nose splitter concept

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

MP4-25 nose splitter concept

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Well as you know Mclaren has a splitter under the nose of the MP4, it otherwise called the snowplow.
It has been used on other cars like the Williams of last year and also this years car.
The main purpose seems to be to create more front end down-force as well as to precondition air going downstream to the main splitter under the tub.

All teams are developing new parts and ways to improve performance, so normally fans also try their hand at looking at posibilities that may be considered very wacky but you never know if it could actually be something beneficial.
Well i made a new splitter for Mp4 25A. It a step forward on what they have on the car now, and it was going through my head when i was first looking at the car and then comparing the splitter to shark's gills.

So here is my interpretation:
Image

Image

The nose was a rush job, but the side profile is accurate. Funny how i keep making parts and can't make a whole car. :roll:
I tested these but did not save any pics. I'll soon put up the flow lines and the numbers.
What i can say though is that this device actually reduces the pressure under the nose. Also if the gills are made wider and the channels refined, the suction would increase drastically with speed.
This works on a diffuser concept, but it's more like the front end diffusers used in Lemans, that depend on the exits behind the wheels to draw vacuum.
This device is pulling air from under the splitter and rushing it through the gills, helping to reduce and losses and static pressure build up.
It could as well benefit turn in in side draft, and make the front end more swift.

this is all what i intended, but i have to test it a little more, so see if it has drawbacks or advantages to what currently exists on the car.
For Sure!!

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: MP4-25 nose splitter concept

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some shots of the currently snow plow.
Image

Image
For Sure!!

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shotzski
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Joined: 03 Jun 2008, 07:10
Location: Manila, Philippines

Re: MP4-25 nose splitter concept

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Nice work Ringo. Can't wait for the flow lines. Do you think this will give Macca a huge advantage, or just make the car more agile? And also can u make a comparison between racing front wing and winter testing front wing? What performs better; there is still room for the front wings to improve performance? I'd like to see Macca use the sophisticated wing. They've been testing it for 2 years now I think.

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: MP4-25 nose splitter concept

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I got back some numbers, the drag is much more because of the increased surface area. The channels through the splitter are pushed on by the air going through it.
However the downforce on the splitter increased.

Splitter downforce increased by 11.5%
splitter drag increased by 18%

so the overall improvement in Lift over drag is not really good. it dropped by about 5 percent.

Funny enough when the nose and splitter is taken into consideration as a whole, both drag and downforce got worse. :lol: df dropped by 2% and drag went up by 7, overall L/d was dropped by about 9%.
Showing how interlinked the parts are, and imagine how much different it would be with the whole car and the wheels.

At least i found out that as an individual part, the design is not so bad, maybe good for high downforce tracks.
And these forces i have are really small. Talking about maybe 12 pounds of down-force at 160mph improving to about 14 or so. drag was small, about 6 pounds increasing to about 7 with the new part.
The part can be further refined on the inside though, i see where the problem is.
I'll put up pics tomorrow. I don't even have a clue if these numbers are anywhere near what Mclaren are getting on their snowplow. :) surprising how little it is at such a high speed.
For Sure!!

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Holm86
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Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 03:37
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: MP4-25 nose splitter concept

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I was wondering if it would be possible to combine the mclaren nosesplitter with the nose hole of the 2008 ferrari i believe it was.

Like having an "intake" or shovel instead of at splitter in between the two pillars feeding the hole making a downforce section??

would this be possible?? or is a hole in the nose illegal with current regulations??

wesley123
wesley123
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 17:55

Re: MP4-25 nose splitter concept

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Well, i had a personal idea too to make the splitter multiplaned, so 2 wing sections, and then make them like a wing profiel, by this i guess you can genearte more downroce out of it(ofcourse it needs an different shaped undernose to reducte the drag around there)
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

wrcsti
wrcsti
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Joined: 06 Apr 2009, 04:46

Re: MP4-25 nose splitter concept

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Are you suggesting something like this?
Image
Image

Doubt its either legal or too functional but it looks cool as hell.

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Holm86
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Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 03:37
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: MP4-25 nose splitter concept

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i believe it could make the central "neutral" section og the front wing into a downforce generationg section.
allthough it would use alot of the air that now feeds to the diffuser and sent it up over the chassis instead of down under it. but perhaps it could be an idea for next year when the double diffusers are banned.

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Holm86
247
Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 03:37
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: MP4-25 nose splitter concept

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Image

very very rough and fast made sketch of my idea. the red section would be formed as an aerofoil generating downforce via the bernoulli principle. the tunnel would make downforce via newtons third law.

what do you guys think?

danfast66
danfast66
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Joined: 18 May 2010, 00:47

Re: MP4-25 nose splitter concept

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I was thinking it might be a good idea to to use the plow as the nose itself, kinda turn the nose 90 degrees and split all the air to the sides like the lister lmp pontoons, with a wing shaped bottom? http://www.mulsannescorner.com/listerstormlmp-4.html
I also wonder why the ferrari vent through the nose thingy never came back?

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Holm86
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Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 03:37
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: MP4-25 nose splitter concept

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Image
Image

ReubenG
ReubenG
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Joined: 21 Apr 2004, 15:31

Re: MP4-25 nose splitter concept

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Without knocking anyone's ideas, I find it interesting / amusing how if you hang around long enough, there are no such things as novel concepts.

Check out the following topic:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4589&hilit=nose+concept

wesley123
wesley123
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 17:55

Re: MP4-25 nose splitter concept

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and it was executed by ferrari in 2008 and proved to be not that good actually. Actualy the idea wold suck, it removes flow around the splitter floor etc reducing its efficiency, it would only be usefull on circuits where front balance is needed
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

diosol
diosol
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Joined: 15 Mar 2010, 22:46

Re: MP4-25 nose splitter concept

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Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:44 am
rjsa wrote:
manchild wrote:
shawness wrote:You can keep arguing that you're right and reality is wrong, but frankly, if you can't be bothered to look up some basic high school physics, I can't be bothered continuing to point it out*.

This is the reason that more F1 people don't participate in forums like this - it's not that it's annoying explaining why some of the harebrained ideas are wrong, it's just annoying when people don't believe you. You can argue over whether Hamilton is a better driver than Raikkonen, but you can't argue the laws of physics. :(

* I reserve the right to keep pointing it out.
Exactly! More people F1 skip these forums since you talk like you've never made anything with your hands or read a science book in Chinese.

Please, take a sheet of cardboard and make two boxes. One big and one smaller. Glue them with same glue, let it dry for same time and than drop them from same height and tell check which one will be more demolished.

I really don't understand what you're trying to say. It is not high school physics, it is 8th grade physics and you're arguing them. Two minutes spent in a garage or a workshop would convince you that you're making some scientific suspicion out of common sense!

Compare the thickness of shoe box cardboard and match box cardboard for god's sake! Why do you think match box cardboard is few times thinner? Because thats enough to fulfill structural demands, there is no need to make it from thicker cardboard. Drop them from same height and check which one will be damaged more.

Want scientific proof?

http://pressure.steel.sandvik.com/framepage.asp

Dimension:

Diameter X Wall thickness (mm)_____ maximum internal pressure (bar)

6 X 1_____432
8 X 1_____311
10 X 1____242
12 X 1____199
14 X 1____168
...
70 X 5____168
...
168 X 5____67
...



Is that convincing enough?

I'm really not going to waste my time anymore explaining things most of the 10 y.o. kids are aware of.
There is a huge diference between a pressure vessel and a chassis tube. In a pressure vessel, the force derives from surface area, in the chassis not. You can't compare both structures.
I just had to repost that. Most of you guys pretending to be engineers makes me quite happy. Most of my expressions are #-o :wtf: :lol: . Few times a year there's even a =D> like when solving the air transistor. I have been following this forum for many years and I haven't posted anything before because I don't have any motivation and time to teach most of you guys. Really big thanks to those few who actively explain even the trickiest technical stuff to others.

I myself study machine engineering in polytechnic as my specialties are CFD and FEA. I find F1 and this forum interesting because I drive kart and rally. So keep up the good work and post those interesting photos for us all to see.

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Holm86
247
Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 03:37
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: MP4-25 nose splitter concept

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ReubenG wrote:Without knocking anyone's ideas, I find it interesting / amusing how if you hang around long enough, there are no such things as novel concepts.

Check out the following topic:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4589&hilit=nose+concept

Hmm i know about the Ferrari version. I wrote this further up as i wrote about it beeing a combo of the mclaren splitter and the ferrari nose-hole.