2022 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, Oct 07 - 09

[Zynerji]

First: CONGRATULATIONS TO MAX VERSTAPPEN!

Second: If there has EVER been a better example as to why F1 needs Heads Up Displays in driver helmets I haven't seen it. Having a LiDAR sensor mounted on the roll hoop camera could easily interpret things like hazards, and hi-light them, even if the driver has no visual of the object.

See https://www.webbikeworld.com/shoeis-hea ... most-here/

[Zynerji]

What people need to realise is that this is an unprecedented scenario, unless I am incorrect. I don't think there has been a race, at least in recent time, when the race has finished under green flag conditions, but not reached within 75% of the race distance. Every other time reduced points have been awarded, it has been because of a suspended race, where they have not resumed and either just ended the race. Because of this, no one had realised that the rule that states that races shorter than 75% distance had only ever applied to abandoned/suspended races, as stated in the regulations. Whether it was Brazil 2016 or Singapore 2022, any races that finish under green flags due to the timer are justified to be scored with full points. I don't think it's fair to bash the FIA for this rule, because it has never actually had to be questioned. I agree they should have maybe clarified, whether it was just a message to the teams and the broadcast, that full points were allowed to be awarded but if they were never asked to do so, there was little reason other than just pure clarity to do it.

The weird thing to me is the complete misunderstanding/disperacy between FIA (who had it clear all along and were actually displaying the correct points during the race) and the teams&press on the other side who were heavily calculating the scenarios all the time, but had no idea of the actual rule.

I think the no radio contact during the race (after last years trying to influence the stewards shenanigans) plays a part in this.

A bit of a shame, but at least it could still be celebrated.

And the other big talking point. That tractor already was on the actual track. We really need to improve here. That is too dangerous. People must drive slowly when that happens, a system to absolutely ensure that needs to be put in place. Now it was just moving from double yellow to red as Gasly arrived at the scene. Yes going too fast but people always try to go fast if it benefits them.

What about having a "scraper" that is part of the brake-duct, and wraps around the trailing edge of the tyres? This could be an almost carbon-copy of the brow wing currently on the cars, just at the bottom-rear of the tyre so it shunts most water pickup back towards the track.

[johnny comelately]

Agree with both those points.
To add to the first one, all "foreign objects" on the track could transmit a signal that would be "read" by the drivers.

[bonjon1979]

Gasly was pretty silly going the speed he was, he got wheel spin changing gear when it was a red flag situation? It’s so odd that he’d be going that fast, don’t quite understand it.

[Mogster]

Agree with both those points.
To add to the first one, all "foreign objects" on the track could transmit a signal that would be "read" by the drivers.

They could put better lights on the vehicles, the ones fitted barely penetrated the mist.

[Edax]

I’m requoting myself as I don’t think people have a grasp on that the issues with wet tires are 1) open wheel cars 2) the current aero concept to lift the wake up high 3) the better a wet tire works, the more water it displaces. F1 is going to always have these problems going forward.

Exactly so. The better the tyre is at moving water, the more water is off the surface and in the air. The more the cars are designed to lift the air behind them upwards, the more the water will likewise be lifted.

Some of that can be reduced by the use of wheel covers (mud guards) but they would need to extend quite close to the tarmac to catch and deflect the water back down on to the ground. Those guards would have to be FIA mandated parts or the teams will use them to create outwash. Any such guard will change the airflow going to the rest of the car so would probably need to be fitted in dry and wet conditions to ensure the cars weren't totally different in different conditions.

Or we just accept that driving an pen wheeled car in the rain is bloody difficult and visibility is always going to be atrocious and decide to either:
1. not run in the wet, or
2. just get on with it like they used to.

Drivers and teams say the wet tyre isn't good enough and that there isn't an overlap between the wet and inter. Well, that can be dealt with by Pirelli but the sport needs to accept it will create more spray in the process.

Ultimately, the issue isn't the tyres per se, it's the politics and attitudes to running in the wet from the FIA, teams and drivers.

Today:
https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... it_rgb.jpg

1994:
https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... n-b-1.webp

One might even say that the spray today was worse than in 1994, but if it is, it's because the tyres and the aero are lifting more water in to the air.

Actually I think it might not be. It is hard to for me to make a direct comparison between now and 20 or 30 years ago because it was so long back.

But I was watching the rooster tails last year in F3 and F1 sessions. I think part of the issue is that F1 cars have become so slippery and clean in their search for low drag downforce that they simply don’t throw the water far away enough and it all gets collected in their wake..

F3 cars with their ‘simple’ airo seem to leave a much wider and higher tail. Which means even at equal displacement the density of the F1 tail is much higher. And since it stays relatively low the F1 spray is not picked up by the wind and lingers forever above the track.

It wouldn’t surprise me if it is worse now than it was in 1994 because of the airo.

[Just_a_fan]

Actually I think it might not be. It is hard to for me to make a direct comparison between now and 20 or 30 years ago because it was so long back.

But I was watching the rooster tails last year in F3 and F1 sessions. I think part of the issue is that F1 cars have become so slippery and clean in their search for low drag downforce that they simply don’t throw the water far away enough and it all gets collected in their wake..

F3 cars with their ‘simple’ airo seem to leave a much wider and higher tail. Which means even at equal displacement the density of the F1 tail is much higher. And since it stays relatively low the F1 spray is not picked up by the wind and lingers forever above the track.

It wouldn’t surprise me if it is worse now than it was in 1994 because of the airo.

The current rules are designed specifically to throw the wake up high behind the car. The rules also specifically seek to prevent lateral spread of the wake. The result is that most of the water lifted by the tyres is going to thrown up in the wake. That's just inherent in the rules developed to allow close following.

Must say here, that the rules did work well today - the cars were nose to tail at times in corners with much less of the issue we saw in previous years. So the close running part of the rules has worked. Of course, the reduced slipstream caused by the rules made overtaking no easier. But that was pointed out as being a consequence of the new rules before we even saw them on track.

[Edax]

Actually I think it might not be. It is hard to for me to make a direct comparison between now and 20 or 30 years ago because it was so long back.

But I was watching the rooster tails last year in F3 and F1 sessions. I think part of the issue is that F1 cars have become so slippery and clean in their search for low drag downforce that they simply don’t throw the water far away enough and it all gets collected in their wake..

F3 cars with their ‘simple’ airo seem to leave a much wider and higher tail. Which means even at equal displacement the density of the F1 tail is much higher. And since it stays relatively low the F1 spray is not picked up by the wind and lingers forever above the track.

It wouldn’t surprise me if it is worse now than it was in 1994 because of the airo.

The current rules are designed specifically to throw the wake up high behind the car. The rules also specifically seek to prevent lateral spread of the wake. The result is that most of the water lifted by the tyres is going to thrown up in the wake. That's just inherent in the rules developed to allow close following.

Must say here, that the rules did work well today - the cars were nose to tail at times in corners with much less of the issue we saw in previous years. So the close running part of the rules has worked. Of course, the reduced slipstream caused by the rules made overtaking no easier. But that was pointed out as being a consequence of the new rules before we even saw them on track.

That makes sense. Haven’t had the opportunity to watch the new cars yet for real let alone in the rain, but it sounds like it is an improvement. In the past years it really looked like the cars were simply dumping all the water on the car behind them.

[ispano6]

I will remember that.

Just for others..

Not the same incident, BUT.. Perez pushing others at Silverstone. NO PENALTY

If that was RB there would be no penalty.

Absolutely. Its obvious that Red Bull gets treated better when things like that happen. Or Ferrari treated worse, however you want.

But anyway - i think the most important thing is that Verstappen is world champion, even if this is not possible! The rules clearly say that more than 75% of the distance is needed... now i know what some F1 engineers who quit F1 forever meant when they said the reason was that F1 is only about money! Japan, Honda, World Championship.

Sorry, Max deserved it absolutely. But this is a charade. And F1 just made the last step to make it obvious to everyone that "Sport" is definetely not what it is and "Circus" or "Sports Entertainement" is what it is.

EDIT: just read that LOOPHOLE and how it is possible. Ridiculous anyway. Resume a race. Drive one lap. Full points...ridiculous ..

You lost all credibility saying Japan and Honda paid off the race and championship. Probably should retract that.

[AR3-GP]

EDIT: just read that LOOPHOLE and how it is possible. Ridiculous anyway. Resume a race. Drive one lap. Full points...ridiculous ..

It's not a loophole. It's an oversight. It will be corrected for '23.

[Sevach]

EDIT: just read that LOOPHOLE and how it is possible. Ridiculous anyway. Resume a race. Drive one lap. Full points...ridiculous ..

It's not a loophole. It's an oversight. It will be corrected for '23.

Good thing it happened in a "gimme" season, can you imagine a championship won by "wrong wording"? Good lord.

[DChemTech]

EDIT: just read that LOOPHOLE and how it is possible. Ridiculous anyway. Resume a race. Drive one lap. Full points...ridiculous ..

It's not a loophole. It's an oversight. It will be corrected for '23.

Good thing it happened in a "gimme" season, can you imagine a championship won by "wrong wording"? Good lord.

That's perfect - they applied the rule correctly, but it was not a correct rule so they're correct to correct it. Indeed, the fallout could have been much bigger, now there's little controversy, luckily .

[Just_a_fan]

I will remember that.

Just for others..

Not the same incident, BUT.. Perez pushing others at Silverstone. NO PENALTY

If that was RB there would be no penalty.

Absolutely. Its obvious that Red Bull gets treated better when things like that happen. Or Ferrari treated worse, however you want.

But anyway - i think the most important thing is that Verstappen is world champion, even if this is not possible! The rules clearly say that more than 75% of the distance is needed... now i know what some F1 engineers who quit F1 forever meant when they said the reason was that F1 is only about money! Japan, Honda, World Championship.

Sorry, Max deserved it absolutely. But this is a charade. And F1 just made the last step to make it obvious to everyone that "Sport" is definetely not what it is and "Circus" or "Sports Entertainement" is what it is.

EDIT: just read that LOOPHOLE and how it is possible. Ridiculous anyway. Resume a race. Drive one lap. Full points...ridiculous ..

You lost all credibility saying Japan and Honda paid off the race and championship. Probably should retract that.

It's no worse than the stuff you've written about Mercedes over the last few years.

[organic]

[PlatinumZealot]

Well that was a damp squib of a championship. Lets hope the rest of the season is more competitive somehow.