2023 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 21 - 23

[organic]

Did piastri have damage? Hamilton was almost 20 seconds up on him. Don't know why he is getting so hyped up for nothing when Norris is destroying in quali and race.

Apparently he had some damage in the underfloor according to Zak

He's a rookie getting beaten by an established team leader in Norris who's rated very highly. But the margin isn't enormous and piastri is doing well

[Bill]

Mercedes are doing so many lift and coast during the race thats so 2016.these is not a recipe for going fast

Everyone does a lot of lift and coast. Especially at circuits where cooling is an issue

no when last did you last hear sergio or max radio instructing him to do lift and coast.merc where doing it in silverstone hear too

[Bill]

this race goes to show that the budget cap has created its own monster now. RB didnt really need to waste money on needless development to refine a winning car, yet the other teams are now hamstrung from catching up because they dont have the resources. sure this is a dominant season, but truthfully the result was already determined in the first few races. at least in 2020 there was an opportunity for other teams to fix their cars by mid season to challenge. this cap completely prevents that and essentially puts teams back at square 1 every year.

It was always gonna be disastrous to implement a cost cap at the same time as the biggest rule change of all time in the sport. This was bound to happen. Shame no one will remember a battle for P2 in races and championships, as that is all we will get until 2026 when it’s impossible for any team to properly bridge this kind of gap.

And yes, RB deserves this and everyone else have themselves to blame yada yada, Hamilton enjoyed a similar advantage in some years bla bla, but it was just as bad in the Hamilton days as in the Schumacher days as in the Vettel days.

A continuation of the 2021 rules would at the moment have a 4 team battle for the championship without doubt, and the racing would be just as good as today since DRS turned out to be decisive with these new rules anyway.

you do realise ferrari started off with the fastest car

[Mchamilton]

Did piastri have damage? Hamilton was almost 20 seconds up on him. Don't know why he is getting so hyped up for nothing when Norris is destroying in quali and race.

Destroyed in quali where? Did lando destroy him in Silverstone? No?
Did he beat him in a race where tyre management was obviously a large factor considering the track temps, yes. Chill. The guys a rookie and Lando is absolutely top class.

[Sieper]

Did piastri have damage? Hamilton was almost 20 seconds up on him. Don't know why he is getting so hyped up for nothing when Norris is destroying in quali and race.

Apparently he had some damage in the underfloor according to Zak

He's a rookie getting beaten by an established team leader in Norris who's rated very highly. But the margin isn't enormous and piastri is doing well

His floor got damaged when Checo put him on the grass. Very hard move.

Perhaps he should have let Checo go, but Piastri so far is an absolute clean racer, trying to defend is admirable.

[Sieper]

this race goes to show that the budget cap has created its own monster now. RB didnt really need to waste money on needless development to refine a winning car, yet the other teams are now hamstrung from catching up because they dont have the resources. sure this is a dominant season, but truthfully the result was already determined in the first few races. at least in 2020 there was an opportunity for other teams to fix their cars by mid season to challenge. this cap completely prevents that and essentially puts teams back at square 1 every year.

It was always gonna be disastrous to implement a cost cap at the same time as the biggest rule change of all time in the sport. This was bound to happen. Shame no one will remember a battle for P2 in races and championships, as that is all we will get until 2026 when it’s impossible for any team to properly bridge this kind of gap.

And yes, RB deserves this and everyone else have themselves to blame yada yada, Hamilton enjoyed a similar advantage in some years bla bla, but it was just as bad in the Hamilton days as in the Schumacher days as in the Vettel days.

A continuation of the 2021 rules would at the moment have a 4 team battle for the championship without doubt, and the racing would be just as good as today since DRS turned out to be decisive with these new rules anyway.

you do realise ferrari started off with the fastest car

This. Plus, the rest were catching up, redbull went for the race setup this weekend, rightfully so, and now brought their upgrade so are back in front further again but development race is on. AMR is loosing there f.e.

[Tvetovnato]

this race goes to show that the budget cap has created its own monster now. RB didnt really need to waste money on needless development to refine a winning car, yet the other teams are now hamstrung from catching up because they dont have the resources. sure this is a dominant season, but truthfully the result was already determined in the first few races. at least in 2020 there was an opportunity for other teams to fix their cars by mid season to challenge. this cap completely prevents that and essentially puts teams back at square 1 every year.

It was always gonna be disastrous to implement a cost cap at the same time as the biggest rule change of all time in the sport. This was bound to happen. Shame no one will remember a battle for P2 in races and championships, as that is all we will get until 2026 when it’s impossible for any team to properly bridge this kind of gap.

And yes, RB deserves this and everyone else have themselves to blame yada yada, Hamilton enjoyed a similar advantage in some years bla bla, but it was just as bad in the Hamilton days as in the Schumacher days as in the Vettel days.

A continuation of the 2021 rules would at the moment have a 4 team battle for the championship without doubt, and the racing would be just as good as today since DRS turned out to be decisive with these new rules anyway.

you do realise ferrari started off with the fastest car

In a few select early races when everyone were finding their feet yes, and some odd one when RB dropped the ball with the setup. Other than that, they were crushing the opposition all in all, and this year we see the true potential of the concept they chose.

[Tvetovnato]

It was always gonna be disastrous to implement a cost cap at the same time as the biggest rule change of all time in the sport. This was bound to happen. Shame no one will remember a battle for P2 in races and championships, as that is all we will get until 2026 when it’s impossible for any team to properly bridge this kind of gap.

And yes, RB deserves this and everyone else have themselves to blame yada yada, Hamilton enjoyed a similar advantage in some years bla bla, but it was just as bad in the Hamilton days as in the Schumacher days as in the Vettel days.

A continuation of the 2021 rules would at the moment have a 4 team battle for the championship without doubt, and the racing would be just as good as today since DRS turned out to be decisive with these new rules anyway.

you do realise ferrari started off with the fastest car

This. Plus, the rest were catching up, redbull went for the race setup this weekend, rightfully so, and now brought their upgrade so are back in front further again but development race is on. AMR is loosing there f.e.

I have seen no mentioning of Mercedes, McLaren and Ferrari going for qualifying setups at the expense of race performance this weekend.

[LM10]

Max in the RB19 = Formula 1

Rest = Formula 1.5

[Just_a_fan]

This is the onboard shot from the same point on track. Remember they were much narrower cars and look at the shadow of tyres. It was definitely a very tight squeeze, but it happened at fairly rapid pace as it was a DRS overtake.

https://i.postimg.cc/xCqYsW-6w/incident.png

Exactly. What Schumacher did was borderline murderous. What Hamilton did at the start was standard start defence. Nothing that isn't done by every other driver. No idea why you felt it worthy of comment, frankly.

I didn't. It was a reply to the other guy who stated it first. So it's a comparison exercise. It seems there is a dislike to Schumacher that is resulting in such blatant statement as "murderous", for something that was a fairly regular racing thing like not willing to back out from the inside on copse. There are so many borderline incidents where your dictionary can be used.

Squeezing someone against a concrete wall where they have no option to get away is on a different level to a corner where there is room to take avoiding action. But you know that and are merely looking for argument. I'm annoyed with myself for falling for it.

[Cs98]

Max did a little do or die with Lewis there.
Very risky with how he plowed into turn 1.
Ironically the points gap between Lewis and max is such that max is the least at risk in terms of a crash. Lewis would lose positions in the championship with a crash.

The race may have some suprises yet. Perez on the Hard could win.

The standardest of T1 moves. "Very risky"

[jz11]

you do realise ferrari started off with the fastest car

This. Plus, the rest were catching up, redbull went for the race setup this weekend, rightfully so, and now brought their upgrade so are back in front further again but development race is on. AMR is loosing there f.e.

I have seen no mentioning of Mercedes, McLaren and Ferrari going for qualifying setups at the expense of race performance this weekend.

you need someone to tell you that Merc (with Lewis in particular) went for quali setup? I thought it was pretty obvious because of where he finished, and especially since they were adjusting the engine during first part of the race to manage heat, which means they sacrificed cooling (cooling is a big drag contributor) for the race to gain performance in quali (when it was much cooler), it was in the conversation Lewis had with his engineer, he asked where he is losing all the time, and was told it was in the straights and added that it was due to having to manage engine heat, later, when the car got lighter, perhaps it wasn't such an issue, but still he finished what - 40 seconds? behind Max, who he beat to P1 in quali

Max on the other hand (and probably all the rest), had race temperatures in mind when they set the car up for quali, which is why the car wouldn't "work" in quali conditions and he was sliding all over, and probably Russel was in similar situation, because I don't remember any messages from him about having to manage temperatures in the race, and in quali he didn't go anywhere (partially due to team mistake)

[Bill]

Hungary is not a power track so having a bit of drag does not hurt.but merc cooling issues are not exclusive to these track,they have been discussed on merc thread

[Tvetovnato]

This. Plus, the rest were catching up, redbull went for the race setup this weekend, rightfully so, and now brought their upgrade so are back in front further again but development race is on. AMR is loosing there f.e.

I have seen no mentioning of Mercedes, McLaren and Ferrari going for qualifying setups at the expense of race performance this weekend.

you need someone to tell you that Merc (with Lewis in particular) went for quali setup? I thought it was pretty obvious because of where he finished, and especially since they were adjusting the engine during first part of the race to manage heat, which means they sacrificed cooling (cooling is a big drag contributor) for the race to gain performance in quali (when it was much cooler), it was in the conversation Lewis had with his engineer, he asked where he is losing all the time, and was told it was in the straights and added that it was due to having to manage engine heat, later, when the car got lighter, perhaps it wasn't such an issue, but still he finished what - 40 seconds? behind Max, who he beat to P1 in quali

Max on the other hand (and probably all the rest), had race temperatures in mind when they set the car up for quali, which is why the car wouldn't "work" in quali conditions and he was sliding all over, and probably Russel was in similar situation, because I don't remember any messages from him about having to manage temperatures in the race, and in quali he didn't go anywhere (partially due to team mistake)

No one in their right frame of mind consciously sacrifices race pace for a glory run in qualifying, unless it’s Monaco where it’s 100 % impossible to overtake on track, especially not on a weekend where you know it’s going to be extremely hot on race day and temps are critical. Hamilton mentioned as usual after qualifying that they usually fare better in the race than in qualifying, which would indicate that they hoped for the same story today, but it did not turn out to be true for various reasons.

Russell managed PU temps very early on as well, so it was likely a wrong estimatation by Merc on how much cooling was required. We’ll see what the true reason was in their debrief, but until then, there is nothing that says that they consciously went with a qualifying setup.

[jz11]

I have seen no mentioning of Mercedes, McLaren and Ferrari going for qualifying setups at the expense of race performance this weekend.

you need someone to tell you that Merc (with Lewis in particular) went for quali setup? I thought it was pretty obvious because of where he finished, and especially since they were adjusting the engine during first part of the race to manage heat, which means they sacrificed cooling (cooling is a big drag contributor) for the race to gain performance in quali (when it was much cooler), it was in the conversation Lewis had with his engineer, he asked where he is losing all the time, and was told it was in the straights and added that it was due to having to manage engine heat, later, when the car got lighter, perhaps it wasn't such an issue, but still he finished what - 40 seconds? behind Max, who he beat to P1 in quali

Max on the other hand (and probably all the rest), had race temperatures in mind when they set the car up for quali, which is why the car wouldn't "work" in quali conditions and he was sliding all over, and probably Russel was in similar situation, because I don't remember any messages from him about having to manage temperatures in the race, and in quali he didn't go anywhere (partially due to team mistake)

No one in their right frame of mind consciously sacrifices race pace for a glory run in qualifying, unless it’s Monaco where it’s 100 % impossible to overtake on track, especially not on a weekend where you know it’s going to be extremely hot on race day and temps are critical. Hamilton mentioned as usual after qualifying that they usually fare better in the race than in qualifying, which would indicate that they hoped for the same story today, but it did not turn out to be true for various reasons.

Russell managed PU temps very early on as well, so it was likely a wrong estimatation by Merc on how much cooling was required. We’ll see what the true reason was in their debrief, but until then, there is nothing that says that they consciously went with a qualifying setup.

red bull did it when they were the underdog and trying out different things to challenge Mercedes, when they did good in quali, then fell in race, just like Lewis did today
yet that isn't enough and you feel that generalizing - "no one in their right mind" is actually an argument...