2024 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Feb 29 - Mar 02

[Seanspeed]

One of the double edged swords of being a champ who only ever won in a red bull is that the entire world knows your contract includes being the favoured driver and that the management setup dictates that your team mate will never challenge

I really doubt Max would demand any sort of clause like that in a contract. Not like he needs it, by any means.

Anybody who wants to downplay Max's abilities based on this is just being salty. The guy is clearly one of the best talents the sport has seen.

[skwdenyer]

I can think of plenty of races where Bottas looked average in a "dominant" Mercedes.

I like Bottas, but he was flattered by the old Mercedes being easy to drive. Max Verstappen's Red Bull is tailored to suit him only, but there's no way Perez is a full second slower than Max. That being said, there's no one catching Red Bull right now. They're probably the only ones who truly understand these regulations. And they weren't even pushed last season. They can outdevelop everyone in a season

This is the most important part of the discussion. People seem to ignore this aspect of the current ruleset. Other technical teams don't seem to have a similar level of grasp over what to do. The RB car has the best ride, is the most stable and works across a variety of tracks unlike the others -- for e.g., McLaren worked and is likely to be very competitive only on tracks with lots of high speed corners for instance.

These regs are very tricky. Where F1 (Brawn et al) fell down was in believing CFD was up the task of delivering great cars to these specs, of levelling the field.

Given the cost caps etc, I really don’t understand why much more extensive testing isn’t reintroduced. Teams other than RBR *need* the help to catch up. Why not give it to them?

[CHT]

I like Bottas, but he was flattered by the old Mercedes being easy to drive. Max Verstappen's Red Bull is tailored to suit him only, but there's no way Perez is a full second slower than Max. That being said, there's no one catching Red Bull right now. They're probably the only ones who truly understand these regulations. And they weren't even pushed last season. They can outdevelop everyone in a season

This is the most important part of the discussion. People seem to ignore this aspect of the current ruleset. Other technical teams don't seem to have a similar level of grasp over what to do. The RB car has the best ride, is the most stable and works across a variety of tracks unlike the others -- for e.g., McLaren worked and is likely to be very competitive only on tracks with lots of high speed corners for instance.

These regs are very tricky. Where F1 (Brawn et al) fell down was in believing CFD was up the task of delivering great cars to these specs, of levelling the field.

Given the cost caps etc, I really don’t understand why much more extensive testing isn’t reintroduced. Teams other than RBR *need* the help to catch up. Why not give it to them?

Money don't always buy success in F1, even if there isn't cost cap, there is no reason to believe that other teams will end up with similar RB20 concept in 2024, or with money, team can change the law of physics to make the car go faster.

RBR team are simply doing a better job.

[stonehenge]

Random thought and not sure whether it's right so wanted to get other opinions:

F1 cars are getting *too* reliable. Accidents seem to be becoming rarer (at least anecdotal it feels that way) and cars have very few reliability issues. Safety Cars have always been a big part of interesting F1 races because they not only condense the grid, but they create opportunities for strategy, upsets, etc. Is a possible reason for this development the fact that the engines are frozen? Teams can't develop the engines (at least not the way they can when engines aren't frozen) and so they're not pushing them the maximum as much. In fact, the only development that is allowed *is to improve reliability*, and yes I know that means they can still find performance gains, but likely at a far smaller cost to the reliability of the engine than if normal development were allowed and everyone was pushing to make significant gains. Just a thought, not sure if it's correct, but I do feel that the level of reliability we are seeing right now is a big factor in making races very dull.

[langedweil]

Where F1 (Brawn et al) fell down was in believing CFD was up the task of delivering great cars to these specs, of levelling the field.

P1-P9 was < 0.6s
P1-P6 was < 0.4s
Even a Haas was in the mix!

Main difference regarding racepace has been to first create the most predictable suspension within the rules to optimize tire usage and prevent the porpoising, and build your aero platform concept around that.
Luckily for RB they made the right aero platform choice as well at the first go ...

[Zynerji]

Btw: Someone on X referred to the post-race press conference as the Max Verstappen Podcast, and I can't stop giggling about it.

[langedweil]

Just a thought, not sure if it's correct, but I do feel that the level of reliability we are seeing right now is a big factor in making races very dull.

I absolutely agree on that !
It's the electrification shizzle that made these PU's so insanely expensive, given the extreme R&D and marerials in it. And while there is absolutely something to say in favor of the development KERS (and maybe even the MGU-H) component(s), that equally goes for ICE development. Cuz, it's becoming increasingly more clear that depending solely EV's isn't a feasible furure; ICE's will be around for many years to come, might as well put more innovation into that .. make highly efficient PU's using synthetic fuel, and push reliability like mad (and yes please, blow some up!)
I'd rather see 20 PU's for 1 million that 1 PU for 20 million!

Cost saving is a bullshit argument ..

[CaribouBread]

Random thought and not sure whether it's right so wanted to get other opinions:

F1 cars are getting *too* reliable. Accidents seem to be becoming rarer (at least anecdotal it feels that way) and cars have very few reliability issues. Safety Cars have always been a big part of interesting F1 races because they not only condense the grid, but they create opportunities for strategy, upsets, etc. Is a possible reason for this development the fact that the engines are frozen? Teams can't develop the engines (at least not the way they can when engines aren't frozen) and so they're not pushing them the maximum as much. In fact, the only development that is allowed *is to improve reliability*, and yes I know that means they can still find performance gains, but likely at a far smaller cost to the reliability of the engine than if normal development were allowed and everyone was pushing to make significant gains. Just a thought, not sure if it's correct, but I do feel that the level of reliability we are seeing right now is a big factor in making races very dull.

I attribute it to the limited engine count as much as the engine freeze. I'm beginning to think that if they were allowed to run let say 10 engines a season we'd see more reliability failures!

[stonehenge]

Random thought and not sure whether it's right so wanted to get other opinions:

F1 cars are getting *too* reliable. Accidents seem to be becoming rarer (at least anecdotal it feels that way) and cars have very few reliability issues. Safety Cars have always been a big part of interesting F1 races because they not only condense the grid, but they create opportunities for strategy, upsets, etc. Is a possible reason for this development the fact that the engines are frozen? Teams can't develop the engines (at least not the way they can when engines aren't frozen) and so they're not pushing them the maximum as much. In fact, the only development that is allowed *is to improve reliability*, and yes I know that means they can still find performance gains, but likely at a far smaller cost to the reliability of the engine than if normal development were allowed and everyone was pushing to make significant gains. Just a thought, not sure if it's correct, but I do feel that the level of reliability we are seeing right now is a big factor in making races very dull.

I attribute it to the limited engine count as much as the engine freeze. I'm beginning to think that if they were allowed to run let say 10 engines a season we'd see more reliability failures!

That's a good point, actually! But that's as much to do with the costcap as anything. Engines are incredibly expensive, so taking even just a couple of engines more would really limit your development budget.

Actually, why is there even a limit on engine components? We already have a cost cap. Why is it necessary to restrict how many comments teams may use. If they use more, it'll impact how much money they have left.

[CHT]

Without a cost cap, I reckon a new team like RBR may not exist today. In the past, it has always been Mclaren and Ferrari, where the budget can go as high as 300-400 million per year. I reckon
Isnt this a good thing for F1?

As for excitement, I reckon if Max and RBR are not leading the race, it will be fun to watch. Just like Singapore and LV last year

[AR3-GP]

Without a cost cap, I reckon a new team like RBR may not exist today. In the past, it has always been Mclaren and Ferrari, where the budget can go as high as 300-400 million per year. I reckon
Isnt this a good thing for F1?

As for excitement, I reckon if Max and RBR are not leading the race, it will be fun to watch. Just like Singapore and LV last year

A potential idea is to hold half grid sprint races (1 car per team and 2 sprints with one driver for each). So then you get one event without Verstappen.

[Chuckjr]

Max is no different from the other newey passengers like mansell damon hill.mika vettle.. who looked great in newey's rocketships... win againt a top driver or another team... newey ruined f1 he's cars can be driver by a monkey as mansell said in the 90s lol

One of the double edged swords of being a champ who only ever won in a red bull is that the entire world knows your contract includes being the favoured driver and that the management setup dictates that your team mate will never challenge

I really doubt Max would demand any sort of clause like that in a contract. Not like he needs it, by any means.

Anybody who wants to downplay Max's abilities based on this is justv being salty. The guy is clearly one of the best talents the sport has seen.

That Max has the ability to adapt to a car and maximize its performance is the Max factor. And he’d probably do the same trick in every other car.

These were the exact same sentiments I read time and time again when Lewis was in the dominant Merc.

[Sevach]

These were the exact same sentiments I read time and time again when Lewis was in the dominant Merc.

100% cyclical.

[Watto]

Max is no different from the other newey passengers like mansell damon hill.mika vettle.. who looked great in newey's rocketships... win againt a top driver or another team... newey ruined f1 he's cars can be driver by a monkey as mansell said in the 90s lol

One of the double edged swords of being a champ who only ever won in a red bull is that the entire world knows your contract includes being the favoured driver and that the management setup dictates that your team mate will never challenge

I really doubt Max would demand any sort of clause like that in a contract. Not like he needs it, by any means.

Anybody who wants to downplay Max's abilities based on this is justv being salty. The guy is clearly one of the best talents the sport has seen.

That Max has the ability to adapt to a car and maximize its performance is the Max factor. And he’d probably do the same trick in every other car.

These were the exact same sentiments I read time and time again when Lewis was in the dominant Merc.

I just think it shows how both are important really have a bad car and it’s unlikely an even the best driver will win consistently you’ll get I think glimpses of talent but not all season long. Max and Lewis at their best almost drove races in cruise control managing races but always found another gear when needed, both make very very few mistakes - early/raw max did but he doesn’t now.

[venkyhere]

(1) getting the car design "first time right" is a big deal in the cost cap era. Separates the 'Tesla' engg talent from the 'Edison' engg talent. Trial and error by throwing millions at the problem is no longer possible.

(2) Cost cap is designed to always benefit the smaller teams at the back of the grid, that's why we have a Hass or Williams qualifying within 1 second of pole. Those smaller teams wouldn't have spent more money than what the budget cap allocates them anyway.

(3) I read puerile comments like Max is a 'Newey passenger' and that the car makes him look special. That's like saying Messi is considered one of the greats because he happened to be in Pep Guardiola's Barcelona team. Yes, it was a spactacular team with ability to hold the ball indefinitely, and Messi played like a god because he was given so much opportunity to carry the ball. But someone like Messi is going to be the best player in any team, whichever team he plays in. Max is to F1 what Messi is to football. Whether Newey or anyone else designs the car, Max is going to squeeze everything out of it. Whether we like him or not, we can't 'deny' the talent. Generational talent. I am not a fanboy, just saying what I see. Brazil 2016 is what convinced me. There couldn't be a better testament to pure talent.

(4) There can't be a season like 2023 w.r.t the gap between P1 and P2 in the championship. Different car concepts were battling each other. For 2024, they have all converged, all the teams have improved their tyre deg management over race distance (even Haas) - can say this because Bahrain is one of the highest tyre deg races. The RB20 is just an 'extreme version' of the same car concept everyone is having now. 2024 is no way going to be as dominant as 2023.