2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[zeroday]

"Mercedes caps, no Ferrari caps!"
Still the biggest draw in F1

[Just_a_fan]

Not saying $150 million a year isn't an absurd amount of money, BUT:

The value of getting Verstappen is *not only* him driving for you, it's also him *not driving for Red Bull*!

Verstappen is not only the best driver, meaning you boost your chances of winning, but without him, Red Bull's chances of winning are significantly reduced. In other words, getting Verstappen from Red Bull immediately and significantly increases your chances to win (this is true for all teams, not just Mercedes, btw.)

Given that the top teams used to spend like 400-500 million pre cost cap, spending that much on Verstappen is the easiest way of significantly increasing your chances to win while staying under the cost cap. It's an absurd amount of money, but that doesn't mean it's not smart or economically sound.

Someone has bought into the "driver outperforms his car" idea.

No point paying $100m for a driver if the car is not good enough. The Red Bull is half a second or more quicker than the rest - that's simple physics. No driver can go faster than the car is able to go, doesn't matter who it is. All the best drivers do is get closer to the car's pace and they do it consistently.

Max in the Merc isn't winning titles.

He's probably winning races though with a step similar to what McLaren made in Austria last year.

You don't have to dig too deep to put a dent in the "driver doesn't make a difference" theory by looking what Max Verstappen is doing to Sergio Perez on a routine basis in the same car.

Or what Hamilton did to Bottas over a race distance. Both Bottas and Perez are multiple-GP winners to boot.

Max is better than Sergio, Hamilton is better than Bottas is not shocking news. Some drivers are better than others. But no driver can go faster than the car is physically able to go is my point. If the Merc is still half a second slower than the competition then it's half a second slower than the competition.

[214270]

Sanchez to Alpine - that took no time at all. Meanwhile, Elliott is still on the market; I figured he’d be a shoe-in at Williams.

Very peculiar he’s yet to be snapped up.

[StefanH]

Max is better than Sergio, Hamilton is better than Bottas is not shocking news. Some drivers are better than others. But no driver can go faster than the car is physically able to go is my point. If the Merc is still half a second slower than the competition then it's half a second slower than the competition.

Current cars seem to have an easier time creating efficient front downforce and grip than rear. If your car will become quicker when it's more 'on the nose' then a driver who can handle more of that (Max Verstappen, Schumacher being clear examples) will definitely make the same car go faster than what seemed possible with -for example- a duo like Perez and Bottas.

[DGP123]

If the Merc is still half a second slower than the competition then it's half a second slower than the competition.

Agree. Stick Max on pole every race in that Merc, he wouldn’t win. It’s not solely about acquiring him, it’s what he can bring with him, in terms of staff. The rebuild has always been the primary goal here. That is the real attraction, and the quick fire route for Toto to really turn this ship around.

It will be a complete waste of money, and he will achieve nothing at Merc, if he’s driving these dogs year after year, with the same technical team still puzzled over GE cars. Once your era is over, it’s over, unless you time a move correctly. That’s F1.

[PlatinumZealot]

The Verstappens are not exactly popular in the RB camp notbsure who wants to go with them. Newey seem to be going thd other way. If they do arrive they have to work with Shov, Allison and Bonno.

[ringo]

"Mercedes caps, no Ferrari caps!"
Still the biggest draw in F1

Ferrari will need to ramp up the merchandise production come year end for the Team LH swarm and Mercedes will need to ramp down production, or just sell stuff as vintage Hamilton.

[Just_a_fan]

Max is better than Sergio, Hamilton is better than Bottas is not shocking news. Some drivers are better than others. But no driver can go faster than the car is physically able to go is my point. If the Merc is still half a second slower than the competition then it's half a second slower than the competition.

Current cars seem to have an easier time creating efficient front downforce and grip than rear. If your car will become quicker when it's more 'on the nose' then a driver who can handle more of that (Max Verstappen, Schumacher being clear examples) will definitely make the same car go faster than what seemed possible with -for example- a duo like Perez and Bottas.

Yes, a driver happier in a car is faster than one who isn't. Again, this isn't news. But no driver can drive a car to a lap time that the car can't physically achieve. No driver. None. Not even Max.

It reminds me of the days when ABS was hitting the mainstream and people said "yeah, a good driver [they meant themselves, of course] is better than ABS". None of them could answer how the driver, pressing a single pedal, can control 4 separate wheels individually at their respective maximum braking efficiency. Because you can't. It's not possible.

[Just_a_fan]

If the Merc is still half a second slower than the competition then it's half a second slower than the competition.

Agree. Stick Max on pole every race in that Merc, he wouldn’t win. It’s not solely about acquiring him, it’s what he can bring with him, in terms of staff. The rebuild has always been the primary goal here. That is the real attraction, and the quick fire route for Toto to really turn this ship around.

It will be a complete waste of money, and he will achieve nothing at Merc, if he’s driving these dogs year after year, with the same technical team still puzzled over GE cars. Once your era is over, it’s over, unless you time a move correctly. That’s F1.

I guess it comes down to how many of the right people are prepared to move with him and, crucially, whether Mercedes can accommodate them within the budget cap - firing a load of your own staff to make way for new people is a great way to shaft the morale of those left behind.

If Max can drag the likes of Wache along then maybe it would work out, but otherwise?

[Big Tea]

Also, it is not just about one engineer knowing what is needed, it is the whole cadre agreeing and working together for the same aims. One person in the right (read as wrong) position can derail 100 who have it right and the world outside would not know

[Dunlay]

If the Merc is still half a second slower than the competition then it's half a second slower than the competition.

Agree. Stick Max on pole every race in that Merc, he wouldn’t win. It’s not solely about acquiring him, it’s what he can bring with him, in terms of staff. The rebuild has always been the primary goal here. That is the real attraction, and the quick fire route for Toto to really turn this ship around.

It will be a complete waste of money, and he will achieve nothing at Merc, if he’s driving these dogs year after year, with the same technical team still puzzled over GE cars. Once your era is over, it’s over, unless you time a move correctly. That’s F1.

I guess it comes down to how many of the right people are prepared to move with him and, crucially, whether Mercedes can accommodate them within the budget cap - firing a load of your own staff to make way for new people is a great way to shaft the morale of those left behind.

If Max can drag the likes of Wache along then maybe it would work out, but otherwise?

It's a waste of time to pursue one driver or one engineering leader. It takes a whole factory to be successful. If Toto can buy the entire Red Bull team, may be then there is a chance. There was a report that Horner has got the contracts reworked for Pierre Wache and Enrico Balbo recently. So I don't know what people expect Max to be bringing to Mercedes, other than the unwanted baggage of Jos. There is no guarantee that Jos will keep his mouth shut if things don't go well for Max at Mercedes. Jos won't mind publicly humiliating Toto.

Toto seems to be hurt because Lewis left and he is egoistically desperate to fill that void, rather than being rationale and patient with his current team. He should move aside and let someone drive the team.

[dialtone]

I’m not a Jos sympathizer but I don’t agree with attributing faults for this to a single person.

We don’t have enough information to establish fault, and sometimes it’s hard for the people themselves to do it.

Jos is liked by Max, that’s about it, if you like Max then you like Jos. Jos has been extremely obedient with the restrictions placed on him by RBR.

Again, I don’t really like the guy either but RBR is full of powerful minded and competitive individuals that tried to transform the business without strong leadership buy in. This can happen in this situation.

Also done talking on this here because it’s OT.

[ringo]

If the Merc is still half a second slower than the competition then it's half a second slower than the competition.

Agree. Stick Max on pole every race in that Merc, he wouldn’t win. It’s not solely about acquiring him, it’s what he can bring with him, in terms of staff. The rebuild has always been the primary goal here. That is the real attraction, and the quick fire route for Toto to really turn this ship around.

It will be a complete waste of money, and he will achieve nothing at Merc, if he’s driving these dogs year after year, with the same technical team still puzzled over GE cars. Once your era is over, it’s over, unless you time a move correctly. That’s F1.

I guess it comes down to how many of the right people are prepared to move with him and, crucially, whether Mercedes can accommodate them within the budget cap - firing a load of your own staff to make way for new people is a great way to shaft the morale of those left behind.

If Max can drag the likes of Wache along then maybe it would work out, but otherwise?

Max is basically a young man with still limited wisdom, business knowledge and technical organizational knowledge, I dont see him having that kind of level of personal respect with an engieering team to warrant them going with him. Some physio people maybe.
His dad and Marko seem to be the ones who sheild him from having to get down into the weeds with the staff.
In the older days with smaller simpler teams, a driver maybe could develop broader reaching relationships. I dont really see that today with any of the drivers even Alonso and Lewis.
Max could maybe pull GP and some people who by job description have to interact with him, but i am sure engineers at redbull know how much of the performance is the Newey machine vs the driver and they will bet on that Newey machine everyday.
If Max comes to Merc it will be with Marko and Jos. He will have to be aquainted with James and the gang at Merc.

[DGP123]

Six people have jumped from Merc to Ferrari since Lewis was confirmed? I’d anticipate similar moves, if Max signs. With Newey gone, and if others begin to leave, it opens the floodgate. It happened at Merc, and it will happen again, once people realise the era of dominance is over, and seek a new challenge. Geographically, it’s an easy move too, on families.

[TeamKoolGreen]

Six people have jumped from Merc to Ferrari since Lewis was confirmed?

No.