And the new World Champion is....

[manchild]

Regarding break testing... does anyone really believes that Alonso risked to get his car demaged if Doornbos smashed into his rear end? C'mon!

"Alonso had tried to push Doornbos of the track" - another thing he'd like to do in order to demage his car

[allan]

perhaps we need new eyes, don't we??????

[manchild]

I'm not saying that Alonso didn't try to scare Doornbros with that right jump but I'm sure that he didn't try to hit him and take him out. There is a huge diffrenece between those two.

[f1.redbaron]

Regarding break testing... does anyone really believes that Alonso risked to get his car demaged if Doornbos smashed into his rear end? C'mon!

"Alonso had tried to push Doornbos of the track" - another thing he'd like to do in order to demage his car

Manchild, I don't know what you do for a living, but I can only imagine you're a lawyer And if I ever need one, I want you to represent me!

I believe that he did it on purpose...just like you believe that Michael deliberately parked his car at Rascasse. I mean, why would Michael risk getting his car damaged if he was on pole? (just trying to use your way of reasining)

As far as Alonso pushing Doornbos of the track - check the video again. At 00:07, you can see Alonso turning into Doornbos, and in process, moving away from the racing line (which would've cost him even more time). Brake-testing: check the video at 00:12.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feslxpzokuk

[manchild]

Being a lawyer I'd say that Doornbros approached that right turn badly and that break testing never existed but it only appeared so since he had bad trajectory.

[allan]

manchild, even though i hate ur opinions, i like u man! without u we wouldn't have so much fun arguing in this forum.....

[Ciro Pabón]

manchild, even though i hate ur opinions, i like u man! without u we wouldn't have so much fun arguing in this forum.....

Besides, from the point of view of a suspiciously silent majority, we wouldn't have the right arguments so frequently, as he is sometimes left alone against the "italian technical team".

Thanks, f1.redbaron. Now I've seen Dornbos slow on the left lane I understand Alonso.

He probably shouldn't have braked that hard.

But the "move-out-of-my-way, you-blind-***hole" manouver on the straight, I can understand.

There was no "added risk" on these or Schumacher manouvers. It seems a fair penalty for both drivers, nonwithstanding MC.

What I do not get of Principessa's argument is what the relationship is between these two incidents. After all, you could have machinations coming from any team.

[manchild]

manchild, even though i hate ur opinions, i like u man! without u we wouldn't have so much fun arguing in this forum.....

Thanks, well I'll confess... I don't really think what I write here. When it gets calm on forum Tomba pays me pre-arranged fee so I start ranting just to attract more visitors . That's all.

[janus]

manchild stop being anti ferrari im a ferrari fan .........my frist car was a renault and i still love it

the point is this shumacher and alonso did some stupid ting but more stupid is fia e cant remenber ever a drives beeing penalise in this way

i had senna and prost head to head is was great now e could have shumacher and alonso

but fia e messing it all up

ok sumaher and alonso did stupid things a paying fine would bee godd and no one was talking about it ..

[DaveKillens]

In many forms of motorsport, big name drivers take liberties that lesser names would shy away. It's really simple.. "I'm king of the hill and if we collide, I can smear your name all over the media". One great example was Michael Andretti who enjoyed many years of US press support in CART because 1) he was the son of Mario 2) he held the title many times 3) he was an American competing in a field with many not born in the USA. Michael Andretti made many close passes that were very foolhardy, but the driver being overtaken had to yield because if he held his position and line, had a wreck with a prestige name, he faced being trashed by the US media.
I see the same in F1, where big names expect lesser drivers to yield. I recall a few years ago, two drivers fighting for position, the lead driver got blue flags. They were on the same lap, competing for position, but because the driver behind was a big name, somehow the stewards got it all wrong, and blue flagged the unfortunate in the lesser known car, which was leading. That's show business, baby.
This week, both michael Schumacher and Fernando Alonso received penalties because of unacceptable driving that had serious safety implications. Alonso because he lost his cool, and Michael because he walked into a trap. Professional athletes always are ready to try to draw their competitors into a penalty, Mchael has done it himself. This time, he was on the receiving end.
Professional sports will always have controversy, to expect total impartiality from the officials and honourable sportsmanship from the competitors is nice, but in my opinion, wishful thinking. I only have to mention Zidane and the World Cup, or Landis and the Tour de France to illustrate that this crap illustrate the point. Questionable officiating, questionable athletes.
For some, this unexpected kind of controversy just makes things more interesting, while to others, it's the worst kind of injustice.
I do feel for the many devoted Ferrari fans, though. Over and over they have had to be on the receiving end of accusations and harsh comdemnations. But they also have to understand that their beloved Michael is a very controversial driver, he has been involved in many questionable actions. In Formula One, there are many excellent drivers, what separates them is very llittle, just a percent here and there. The difference between winning and finishing out of the points is incredibly small, and trust me, Michael knows that very well. He strives to be the best in all areas, personal fitness, race strategy, consistently quick laps, out laps, the list is endless. So to get on top, and even harder, to stay on top, you have to give nothing away, and always look to capitalize on any way to exploit any advantage or another's weakness. And in the heat of the moment, every so often, you step over the line and get slapped for it. I definitely admire Michael for his racing talents, for his comittment over the years to staying on top, from the endless hours of jogging or in the gym, to meeting with teams to keep sharp and competitive, the total dedication and long hours spent. But I also have felt that he has done questionable things in the past. But they were in the past, he received his penalties (or got away with it), and whatever happened, happened. But that's in the past, in the end his record in the books will be balanced out by tales of indiscretions. History will decide his status.
But this is today, times are exciting, and we shall be able to witness another eventful, probably controversial, and as always, exciting Formula One race with the best drivers in the world.

[Ciro Pabón]

... But they were in the past, he received his penalties (or got away with it), and whatever happened, happened. But that's in the past, in the end his record in the books will be balanced out by tales of indiscretions. History will decide his status...

Some people have problems with this "extremely neutral" approach: if whatever happened, happened, why not let Landis ride the next tours? History is not only for books: history is happening right now. Most people accept that life is not a series of separated events. Life is just one, big thing. People judging your way to handle this big thing is another fact to take in account.

Accepting DaveKillens is right on his commentaries on this particular thread, I want to add to his message: you should not be too prudent to react to bad apples.

Ethics is not for the books: it is for you to apply it every minute of every hour of every day. And, pleeeze, moral and ethics are different subjects...

Look, I work building roads in a third world country. You are not asking me anything, but I can tell you I have not earned a single "peso" through bribery or corruption in my professional life. It is not easy, let me tell you, my young padawans. You cannot look to the other side when it counts, if you want to achieve honesty.

In the process, I have become a fan of judging character. Finally, I have ended working only for the private sector or the general public: rarely if ever I can find a public work totally free of unfair practices. I have had to build a new approach to my work because of this, providing useful services for real persons, not being happy with the same old attitude of "let's accept facts of life" I see in some of my professional friends.

I do not know how much attention you paid to ethics courses on school or college: it is the funnier subject if you like to ask questions about real life during your studies, funnier than design.

If somebody steps on your foot and you react to it, you cannot argue that the second action justify the first. We all know how cheaters do this routinely: part of the advantage of a crook is that he knows some people will be exasperated by his actions. If some pilots behave like crooks, they will be judged every time by their previous actions. Of course we give them the benefit of doubt, but after the third time... hey, we are talking real life here.

Some of us are just waiting for this sorry saga of consecutive championships to end without any more "character failures" (or what could be construed as that) on the part of pilots. And we tend (sorry, we have the same defect of your idols) to have knee jerk reactions to their numerous front page controversial appearances. You can expect people like MC, claiming every time that mistakes are different from frauds.

So, let me say it with all its letters: it is worse to be cool, manipulative and a cheater than to display the irritation this attitude finally instills in you. You don't have the right to attack but you have a right to defend yourself. Even a lawyer can make this distinction.

[mep]

the point is this shumacher and alonso did some stupid ting but more stupid is fia e cant remenber ever a drives beeing penalise in this way

Montoya in Monaco 2005

[DaveKillens]

Well said Ciro, very well put.
This morning as I prepare to view the upcoming battle in Hungary, the weather is superb, the birds are chirping, it's just a wonderful day where I take pleasure in the glory of this world and life being enjoyed. And most definitely, for me racing adds to the richness of life. I embrace it, I marvel in the great talent and driving, it makes me feel good.
There are many great things in racing, but every so often tragedy, or bad news, or driver mistakes or indescretions happen. Ying and yang, along with the good there has to be the occasional crap. We have to deal with, in our own individual ways. Personally, I go through the usual spectrum of emotions, try to understand what happened and why, and form an opinion. I talk about it with others, make posts in forums, vent my feelings and rant if I feel so. For me, I get over it, but trust me I do not forget.
But there comes a time to move on, to not allow the crap to eat away at me like a dark cancer, making me unhappy or bitter.
Life is too short, life is too good to dwell forever on the negative aspects of life.

[effuno]

alonso's frightening of dornbos wasnt dangerous ..ok i agree .. but that lacked sportsmanship just like wat schumi did in monaco.. with yellow flags waving it was for others to ensure that there was no accidents and hence slow down.. so , for me , schumi's wasnt dangerous ,but against sports ethics..

[Scuderia_Russ]

alonso's frightening of dornbos wasnt dangerous.

Have we been watching the same footage? Doornbos nearly went over the top of his rear wheel!