Steam Power

[gear_dawg]

Does anyone have any information on how much power is generated by steam engines? I would like to have some formulas as I am now getting interested in this type of power production. Here is an example engine that can be used to calculate the amount of power generated and how much steam it would require under operating conditions, and ect ect.

Inline 4 cylinder
4 liter total capacity
at 1000rpm

thanks in advance
Gear

[Guest]

where would you be getting the syeam from? and steam engines have different sized cylinders where the hottest steam is first used and as it cools its fed into a smaller pressure cylinder and there to a third even smaller, to get the best out ot the energy. not quite the same as a combustion engine. the power would depend solely on the pressure i guess

[Guest]

Steam is a very efficient energy-carrying medium, with steam turbines making up the most of the machinery in power generation plants today. The problem with steam is making the actual steam.

As much energy as steam has to move things, you have to give steam that energy first, by boiling water. That requires a very BIG boiler, and for the energy demands you would require from an engine, we're talking about a boiler the size of a big car. Just the boiler.

Then to boil the steam, you'd need fuel, burners, and lots of other equipment which would make your power plant more akin to a small house. That's the main reason why steam hasn't been used much since the first cars in the late 1800s.

Hope this cleared up some points.

Juanc

[Apex]

Yup, if your interested in steam power then steam turbines are the way to go.

The energy you can get out of the steam is equal(ish) to the energy you put into it Not exactly equal because of losses. The higher the pressure and temperature of the steam the better! You would typically have a pressure of 15MPa and a temp of about 500c. These are the typical limits, because of the material properties. Depending on cost i suppose you could increase these values.

So, getting the power that you can get out of steam is actually quite simple!

The mass flow, temp and pressure are all you need (at inlet and exit) - Determine the enthalpy and use the following equation:
Power = (mass flow)*(change in enthalpy)

I think this formula would also apply to a piston engine, but turbine is the way to go...

[West]

Don't forget the ideas of superheating and reheating the steam, as well as using additional turbines.

[Guest]

but where the hell are you gonna get steam for the car? maybe a small reactor or perhaps a small diesel engine?

[Guest]

gear_dawg, you gonna answer that? or was this perhaps the great invention you where planning a while ago? you must be devastated, i want you to know all our thoughts are with you at this terrible time. theres still hope thought, next you could invent something cool and unseen, like fire!

[db_007]

Have a look at:

http://home.primus.com.au/wallrus/steam/steam.htm

[Guest]

could someone explain where the steam is coming from? the site about has no mention of that. the steam doesnt just appear from thin air, it has to be created.

[DaveKillens]

Of course the steam has to be manufactured in order to use it for tractive power. The traditional method is to have a source of heat, and a boiler. Or you could use hydrogen peroxide, and pass it through a catylist.
But usually, it takes a bit of time ot heat the fluid in the boiler to temperatures, compared to the normal internal combustion engine, where you just turn the key, and drive off. And that immediate convenience makes it hard to beat in the real world of automotive transportation.

[gear_dawg]

Ok, First off, Thanks for the assistance in the fomule.

Let me clear up some issues. The reason I asked about steam power is because some time ago, I was watching "American Choppers" on Discovery. Durring the show, they were building a bike for Jay Leno. As well as going through his garage of cars. Jay happened to show the hosts of the show a small (basket ball sized and smaller) steam engine. If I heard correctly, Jay was saying that it could produce up to 750 horse power! I was interested since then.

Second, I am not looking to put this kind of power plant into a car or truck.

Third, my interest is in power generation; electricity. Period.

As to my critic. I have aquired a small lawn mower engine. Due to the fact that money is very tight at the moment. I am still looking for some parts. The mower was "donated" by a friend. So far its been used for the cutting of grass, but I hope to change that in the furure.

[Juanc]

Steam power is the best medium for electricity generation. Pound for pound it's the best energy carrying medium. For an engine the same size, it can dance circles around a normal combustion engine.

The problem with steam is that piston engines don't really work with it to full capacity. To be able to extract all the energy from steam, you would need a turbine where you can pour high pressure/high temperature steam and have it expand and exchange all that pressure into velocity.

That velocity the vapour gets from the expansion is what drives the turbine blades and the shaft, and it's this shaft that turns the alternator. It's very simple and given a good source of steam (a boiler) it's one of the most efficient types of machines around.

The problem, as I commented earlier is the steam. This is why you don't see these kind of things much outside factories. Those places usually have steam that's coming from any kind of process and can be reheated and poured into a turbine, to make better use of the energy.

You can always make steam with your kitchen pressure cooker and have it work. Remember, the key's High Pressure/High temperature. Even if you heat your water to the normal boiling point (100 degrees celcius at atmospheric pressure), your steam won't drive the shaft because it doesn't have any pressure energy to turn into velocity and being at the same pressure as the outlet, it won't have any incentive to move either.

I hope this cleared things up a bit more!