F1 Aerodynamicist

[myurr]

F1 Aerodynamicist's take on the W14-B

His channel name is a good bit of branding, but he had a student placement at Red Bull. He doesn't have any real F1 experience, wouldn't have seen anything sensitive at Red Bull, etc. The fact that he starts off talking about the "anti-dive" front suspension shows how little he knows and is leaning upon stuff written by other journalists who similarly don't have much of a clue.

[Hoffman900]

F1 Aerodynamicist's take on the W14-B

His channel name is a good bit of branding, but he had a student placement at Red Bull. He doesn't have any real F1 experience, wouldn't have seen anything sensitive at Red Bull, etc. The fact that he starts off talking about the "anti-dive" front suspension shows how little he knows and is leaning upon stuff written by other journalists who similarly don't have much of a clue.

He certainly has more F1 experience than 99% of us, having studied aerodynamics and gained experience in an F1 team. This practical experience, the insights he could collect directly on Formula 1 cars themselves, certainly gives him a knowledge that is superior to anyone else who has not worked in a Formula 1 team. Therefore, to be honest, I find such comments that obviously question his knowledge and analysis, quite questionable, presumptuous and inappropriate. Sometimes it seems to me as if one or the other here, as soon as he hears something he doesn't like, has to discredit the person who says it.
And this should not happen in a technical forum that should be based on factual and technical arguments.

i have not watched the video yet, but thats not important. He is an aerodynamicist, not a suspension engineer. Pure aerodynamicists often have no idea about suspension. That's why the McLarens had 0% anti-dive and anti-squat in the early 1990s, namely because their chief aerodynamicist had so much influence that he dictated the suspension points and as he didn't believe in "anti-dive"... There is a nice story Steve Nichols told about when he came back to McLaren, he couldn't believe that they didn't use any anti-dive or anti-squat. But anyway, the aerodynamic qualifications and knowledge of this "F1 aerodynamicist" should not be up for debate. He is certainly ahead of most others in this respect and has more experience and knowledge in this regard as 99,9% In this forum. Because very few here have ever even set foot in a F1 factory....

He has Formula Student experience and did one year as a Student Placement at RB. I have looked at his Linkedin, there is no way shape or form I’d listen to him as an authority. I’m sure he is very smart and seems like a nice guy, but classic early career engineer doesn’t know what they don’t know, and I mean that is the most positively critical way. I have had to instruct jr engineers out of school that I have managed that are enthusiastic, but often know-it-alls, to sit back and listen more. They often thank me later when they realized they would have ended up with mud on their face if they blurted what they wanted to say out loud or worst, gone rogue and made decisions they weren’t qualified to make.

There are thousands of us out there with Formula Student / SAE experience too, some of us have some pro racing experience, some of us are still involved in amateur racing (because pro motorsports careers kind of suck), and I have heard him say things that I know are wrong. F1 may be regarded as the pinnacle, but one year there doesn’t make you an expert, especially as a student placement where they are going to very selective with what you are involved on and the information you are shown.

So yes, he has more experience than 99% of the people here who have NO experience, but that still doesn’t make him right or an authority on it. There are hundreds of engineers in F1, thousands if you extend it out to suppliers and consultants, and despite all them, and despite many have a decade plus experiences, you still have performance disparities. If anything he’s probably shot himself in the foot in terms of career… teams don’t want engineers that are influencers and then he advertises to all them what he doesn’t know.

I’m sure I’ll get downvoted because this place is more about a popularity contest than about being right or wrong,, but it’s true, and anyone looking to have a career in engineering will experience the same, and I’m sure a decade from now he’ll go back with the hindsight of more experience and cringe at some of the things he has said.

As for the W14B, it’s hard to say after Monaco. It doesn’t seemed to have hurt, but I’m looking forward to Barcelona to see how it shakes out. I suspect raw pace is similar but I hope to see them a little closer to Aston in the race.

[Venturiation]

Why is the car thread used to spew hate posts to a person who's not even posting regularly here and why are those posts not already deleted?

there is no hate
they are correcting him because someone posted the video of his "analysis" in this thread


it is good to have criticism and why do you want that deleted? because he is your friend and you 2 work together with the CFD models?

just because someone says he has worked in F1 as a student doesn't mean he is always accurate and that he knows everything

[Venturiation]

His channel name is a good bit of branding, but he had a student placement at Red Bull. He doesn't have any real F1 experience, wouldn't have seen anything sensitive at Red Bull, etc. The fact that he starts off talking about the "anti-dive" front suspension shows how little he knows and is leaning upon stuff written by other journalists who similarly don't have much of a clue.

He certainly has more F1 experience than 99% of us, having studied aerodynamics and gained experience in an F1 team. This practical experience, the insights he could collect directly on Formula 1 cars themselves, certainly gives him a knowledge that is superior to anyone else who has not worked in a Formula 1 team. Therefore, to be honest, I find such comments that obviously question his knowledge and analysis, quite questionable, presumptuous and inappropriate. Sometimes it seems to me as if one or the other here, as soon as he hears something he doesn't like, has to discredit the person who says it.
And this should not happen in a technical forum that should be based on factual and technical arguments.

i have not watched the video yet, but thats not important. He is an aerodynamicist, not a suspension engineer. Pure aerodynamicists often have no idea about suspension. That's why the McLarens had 0% anti-dive and anti-squat in the early 1990s, namely because their chief aerodynamicist had so much influence that he dictated the suspension points and as he didn't believe in "anti-dive"... There is a nice story Steve Nichols told about when he came back to McLaren, he couldn't believe that they didn't use any anti-dive or anti-squat. But anyway, the aerodynamic qualifications and knowledge of this "F1 aerodynamicist" should not be up for debate. He is certainly ahead of most others in this respect and has more experience and knowledge in this regard as 99,9% In this forum. Because very few here have ever even set foot in a F1 factory....

He has Formula Student experience and did one year as a Student Placement at RB. I have looked at his Linkedin, there is no way shape or form I’d listen to him as an authority. I’m sure he is very smart and seems like a nice guy, but classic early career engineer doesn’t know what they don’t know, and I mean that is the most positively critical way. I have had to instruct jr engineers out of school that I have managed that are enthusiastic, but often know-it-alls, to sit back and listen more. They often thank me later when they realized they would have ended up with mud on their face if they blurted what they wanted to say out loud or worst, gone rogue and made decisions they weren’t qualified to make.

There are thousands of us out there with Formula Student / SAE experience too, some of us have some pro racing experience, some of us are still involved in amateur racing (because pro motorsports careers kind of suck), and I have heard him say things that I know are wrong. F1 may be regarded as the pinnacle, but one year there doesn’t make you an expert, especially as a student placement where they are going to very selective with what you are involved on and the information you are shown.

So yes, he has more experience than 99% of the people here who have NO experience, but that still doesn’t make him right or an authority on it. There are hundreds of engineers in F1, thousands if you extend it out to suppliers and consultants, and despite all them, and despite many have a decade plus experiences, you still have performance disparities. If anything he’s probably shot himself in the foot in terms of career… teams don’t want engineers that are influencers and then he advertises to all them what he doesn’t know.

I’m sure I’ll get downvoted because this place is more about a popularity contest than about being right or wrong,, but it’s true, and anyone looking to have a career in engineering will experience the same, and I’m sure a decade from now he’ll go back with the hindsight of more experience and cringe at some of the things he has said.

As for the W14B, it’s hard to say after Monaco. It doesn’t seemed to have hurt, but I’m looking forward to Barcelona to see how it shakes out. I suspect raw pace is similar but I hope to see them a little closer to Aston in the race.

thank for your explaination
this is why no one should blindly trust influencers even if they have worked in F1

btw since it seems the floor of this W14 is very close to the RB18 but it wasn't upgraded yet this year, new one is still coming

[Hoffman900]

Vanja,

Stop taking everything so personally. We know you're friendly with him, but we’re not wrong.

And we weren’t wrong to point out your CFD analysis had the wrong geometry, was ran with a CFD model that can produce questionable results, and you have no way of calibrating it to a wind tunnel or the real world, and when a bunch of people who know this stuff pointed it out, you and a bunch of your simps went on a downvote binge. Which just further reinforced my point I made one time that you were using it to position yourself as some kind of expert too and this place has a strong cult of personality popularity contest.

Like yes, you have skills and are educated, it was a good demonstrative exercise, and yes you put a bunch of time in it, but there is no way you could present it as being “xx car”. And when people told you that, you flipped your lid.

This isn’t hate, this is just simply pointing out the technical shortcomings so a bunch of people reading who don’t know this know. If you and other mods delete this, then I know this site has nothing to do with good technical data and it’s just a good ol’ boys club.

Why is the car thread used to spew hate posts to a person who's not even posting regularly here and why are those posts not already deleted?

there is no hate
they are correcting him because someone posted the video of his "analysis" in this thread


it is good to have criticism and why do you want that deleted? because he is your friend and you 2 work together with the CFD models?

just because someone says he has worked in F1 as a student doesn't mean he is always accurate and that he knows everything

This. I hope the guy success! But he needs more experience before positioning himself as an expert. I wouldn’t call any 20 or 30 something early career professional an expert in anything, in any industry.

One can point out the inaccuracies, short comings, and validity of information, that people publicly present, and articulate why (lack of experience, wrong model, no way to validate) without personally attacking anyone. Vanja can’t seem capable of dissociating the two.

[chrisc90]

Same with all of Kyles videos, but CFD and his own analysis of the cars. He was a aero guy at Mercedes, so will have some degree of accuracy.

Nobody knows what Shub worked on at red bull, doesn’t matter if he’s a student. It could just be trial and error designs and see if something new ‘works’.

No need to discredit the work of anyone really.
It NEVER going to be accurate unless you get a leak direct from the team itself - which is never going to happen.

If you don’t agree with it - not really fair to discredit the work people are putting in. No outside analysis or CFD plots are going to be accurate - they might however give a understanding of basic flows around the car.

Simply put - no need to discredit people’s work - if you disagree - knock up your own models and explain them. At least it gives more areas to discuss a topic we are all here to enjoy

[Hoffman900]

Same with all of Kyles videos, but CFD and his own analysis of the cars. He was a aero guy at Mercedes, so will have some degree of accuracy.

Nobody knows what Shub worked on at red bull, doesn’t matter if he’s a student. It could just be trial and error designs and see if something new ‘works’.

No need to discredit the work of anyone really.
It NEVER going to be accurate unless you get a leak direct from the team itself - which is never going to happen.

If you don’t agree with it - not really fair to discredit the work people are putting in. No outside analysis or CFD plots are going to be accurate - they might however give a understanding of basic flows around the car.

Simply put - no need to discredit people’s work - if you disagree - knock up your own models and explain them. At least it gives more areas to discuss a topic we are all here to enjoy

It’s not discrediting when they publicly post information and position themselves as experts, and you know it’s wrong or not entirely accurate and then articulate why.

Even Kyle, way smarter than me, better experience, but he was at Merc 3 years? I wouldn’t call him an expert either. Expert to me are career people like Newey, Allison, etc. These teams have dozens and dozens of engineers like Kyle. So he is capable of being wrong too, just less so than someone with none, and I don’t know enough to know when / how he is, but I bet someone with a decade experience in F1 aerodynamics could.

It’s obvious to me that a lot of people don’t work in STEM fields here. You have to be able to take criticism, especially when you’re wrong. This isn’t about a pat on the back and a “good job” and just because you put a lot of effort into something doesn’t mean you’re right. It sounds harsh, but it’s true. And I’ll press anyone here to tell me how I’m wrong.

Lastly, I don’t have to provide a rebuttal. I’m not trying to be an influencer nor do I have the time to put together models because some people on F1T and reddit want to have a tiff.

[chrisc90]

Seems a odd stance to take given you say you say “no way shape or form listen to him as an authority”, “ classic early career engineer doesn’t know what they don’t know”.

Why not share your thoughts on how the airflow over the car works or your views on why something might be wrongly mentioned from others (if you have in the car threads, my apologies there)

[Hoffman900]

Seems a odd stance to take given you say you say “no way shape or form listen to him as an authority”, “ classic early career engineer doesn’t know what they don’t know”.

Why not share your thoughts on how the airflow over the car works or your views on why something might be wrongly mentioned from others (if you have in the car threads, my apologies there)

Ps - no need to let it get to you. Scroll past it - or turn signatures off in posts in the forum setting. Mods have already discussed it with me and there’s no problem.

That’s called “calling it like I see it”. Over time, I’ve managed a dozen fresh engineers out of school and they’re all like that. It sticks out to me plain as day.

I’m a Honda fan, but I think it’s provocative and silly, and in my mind, shows a lack of maturity. You know what you’re doing by having it and people wonder why this site has become what it has.

[Steven]

Yeah well we get the point.