2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[TeamKoolGreen]

Not sure "isn't important" is accurate, but perhaps not as important anymore as he is made out to be in the eyes of the media and fans. Brings to mind this article from a few weeks ago.

This same exact situation occurred with Mclaren back in 2014 when they hired Peter Prodromou, who was similarly stated by some to be the 'real' mind behind Red Bull's cars, and that Newey was supposedly only in a supervising role.

End result? Mclaren came out with some lackluster Red Bull copy, all while Red Bull continued to design top chassis let down merely by poor engines, and returned to the very top once their engines were competitive again.

I dont know what Newey needs to do at this point for some people to grasp that his participation in some of the best and most innovative cars in F1 in the past decades is not some sort of weird coincidence. :/

That's an interesting counter-point. Though I haven't made up my mind on this. There was probably a similar underlings at Williams.

[ispano6]

Moveable/active aero seems like a challenge to stick around for, but might not be Newey's forte. I don't see him leaving Red Bull for another team, only for another passion if not to spend more time with his family. It wasn't long ago that he was in a severe accident and I would imagine that now a 24-race calendar could really drain him. Though honestly, I think a lot of this news is hogwash. There was an article not long ago where Newey himself was quoted "why would he leave a team he helped build?" (sorry can't recall which). So until Red Bull announce it, don't feed the click bait.

[Dunlay]

Indeed. With red bull's decision to build their own PU from scratch, it made Max's options seem like Ferrari, AMR and Mercedes. Maybe Max would've stayed to see if RB could do something with RBPT, but the power struggle maybe just accelerated his inevitable departure.

Ferrari is now off the table and AMR seem to be persisting with Stroll so Merc seems obvious to me

To be fair, RB did put a lot of effort into making a deal with Porsche, but Porsche was unrealistic with their expectations. You can't sit at the table with arguably the most competent team at the time and expect them to let you de facto take control over the operation.

With all that, I fully support the decision to go it alone. The problem? Marko and Jos started blaming Horner for the failed deal. Honda was also not completely sure they will continue in F1 past 2025 iirc, I'd also be frustrated at their indecisiveness and seek a support-role partner for RBPT.

Painfull short term, but will bear fruit long term. Not exactly attractive to Marko and Verstappens, who are focused on their own success of course. As for Newey, he'd be able to continue for a while for sure and RB did start reducing their dependancy on him as a part of long term strategy obviously. However, politics and bad atmosphere in the team alienated him and some people say neither Wache nor Balbo are enjoying things and might also leave soon.

Before people start acussing Horner for everything, they should understand it takes two to tango. Marko and Verstappen short term vision would leave the team vulnerable and dependable long term. They then proceeded to introduce the clause behind Horner's back. Honestly, that was a very dishonest move for people who claim moral high ground...If you don't agree with a big strategical decision, just walk away without a fuss instead of "whistleblowing" internal affairs and leaving the whole Red Bull group exposed to court of public opinion

Spot on! Very good take on the matters.

[Dunlay]

Not sure "isn't important" is accurate, but perhaps not as important anymore as he is made out to be in the eyes of the media and fans. Brings to mind this article from a few weeks ago.

This same exact situation occurred with Mclaren back in 2014 when they hired Peter Prodromou, who was similarly stated by some to be the 'real' mind behind Red Bull's cars, and that Newey was supposedly only in a supervising role.

End result? Mclaren came out with some lackluster Red Bull copy, all while Red Bull continued to design top chassis let down merely by poor engines, and returned to the very top once their engines were competitive again.

I dont know what Newey needs to do at this point for some people to grasp that his participation in some of the best and most innovative cars in F1 in the past decades is not some sort of weird coincidence. :/

None of this is mutually exclusive though. Peter Promodrou is talented. Adrian Newey is talented. Both of them require the correct environment. Mclaren was never appropriate until more recently. Mercedes did not let customer teams use high power modes in 2014 so there's no point even discussing Mclaren of 2014. From 2015 Honda was a disaster. Also not Peter's fault. Mclaren also didn't have their own windtunnel until last year and were running out of money around COVID. Only Stella's leadership allowed Promodrou to stretch his legs. There's a number of reasons why Mclaren has been struggling that would have also caused Newey to struggle if he went there, and eventually leave for a second time.

The same thing will apply with Wache and Balbo. Brilliant minds, but ultimately the team that you make your home matters too. There's no guarantee that any of these people will be able to replicate their success at Red Bull in another team. What they created at Red Bull was ultimately quite unique. There efforts were never hindered and they never answered to manufacturer CEOs. We all know how good engineers had been stifled for years at Ferrari because of their broken leadership and then flourished in other teams (Aldo Costa, James Allison).

The sport will go on with them broken apart, but it is ultimately poorer for it.

Another excellent post! Why is there no voting in this thread?

[Dunlay]

There are actually some good videos on youtube with Newey about designing the yacht.

You don’t do something like that with plans to be in F1 for another 8-10 years.
You don’t do something like that with plans to park the new boat in the harbor for 8-10 years.
You don’t do something like sailing around the world in your late 70’s to 80’s.

Bye Adrian.
Enjoy your retirement.

So many people hoping that Adrian leaves rather than goes to Ferrari. Hate to see Ferrari win with Lewis behind the wheel. You're transparent, I'll give you that.

I personally think success is going to be a distant objective for Newey and Ferrari combo. I would love to see him go there, but if he couldn't handle Ron Dennis' style of management or the current political chaos at Red Bull, then he has zero chance of fruitfully surviving at Ferrari where these things are order of the day.

He has been used to the comfortable atmosphere of Red Bull where he can work on his own pace, on his own projects, with his own style, completely away from any internal or external pressures of either management or blood thirsty media. No questions asked, no answers sought kind of environment where he has flourished and has spent the longest part of his career. Can he work outside of his comfort zone at this age? Time will answer it.

[f1isgood]

I am still a bit surprised that it is Adrian who's leaving first in any case. Since Horner has stayed, I expected Marko and Verstappen to leave first. Now some can say Marko is staying so Max can win etc, but I would like to beleive Max isn't that stupid that he would throw away a couple of title winning cars even if Marko had left, or maybe he is.

[ME4ME]

Before people start acussing Horner for everything, they should understand it takes two to tango. Marko and Verstappen short term vision would leave the team vulnerable and dependable long term. They then proceeded to introduce the clause behind Horner's back. Honestly, that was a very dishonest move for people who claim moral high ground...If you don't agree with a big strategical decision, just walk away without a fuss instead of "whistleblowing" internal affairs and leaving the whole Red Bull group exposed to court of public opinion

Exactly, I find that quite disappointing from Verstappen and Marko. I mean why would Marko even do such a thing, certainly not for the best of the team. Just to protect himself.

It undermines the strategic decision that Horner and Marko took to pay up big and secure Verstappen to bridge the transition period from Honda engines to RBPT, which I thought was such a wise decision at the time. Even in the case of initial under performance of the engine, Verstappen's performance would ensure that Red Bull wouldn't entirely fall off a cliff in the WDC.

And in Verstappens case he knew what he signed up for with RBPT always being a challenging prospect for Red Bull certainly on a short term basis. Since he backed Marko, Marko is now in his dept and will move aside if Verstappen requires him to. To use that to look around at Mercedes and Aston Martin betrays the trust and is in my opinion quite disloyal to the people at Red Bull and Red Bull Powertrains.

Even if Marko were to retire in say 1-3 year time. Newey to go elsewhere or retire himself. There is still a damn strong team of people and whatever anyone thinks of Christian you can bet he will do whatever it takes to make the RBPT project successfull. If Red Bull can keep Wache and the other top engineers then there is plenty of reason for them to continue to be at or near the front.

Verstappen said in Abu Dhabi that he could see himself race for Red Bull to the end of his career. Guess he really just ment Helmut Marko.

[f1isgood]

Before people start acussing Horner for everything, they should understand it takes two to tango. Marko and Verstappen short term vision would leave the team vulnerable and dependable long term. They then proceeded to introduce the clause behind Horner's back. Honestly, that was a very dishonest move for people who claim moral high ground...If you don't agree with a big strategical decision, just walk away without a fuss instead of "whistleblowing" internal affairs and leaving the whole Red Bull group exposed to court of public opinion

Exactly, I find that quite disappointing from Verstappen and Marko. I mean why would Marko even do such a thing, certainly not for the best of the team. Just to protect himself.

It undermines the strategic decision that Horner and Marko took to pay up big and secure Verstappen to bridge the transition period from Honda engines to RBPT, which I thought was such a wise decision at the time. Even in the case of initial under performance of the engine, Verstappen's performance would ensure that Red Bull wouldn't entirely fall off a cliff in the WDC.

And in Verstappens case he knew what he signed up for with RBPT always being a challenging prospect for Red Bull certainly on a short term basis. Since he backed Marko, Marko is now in his dept and will move aside if Verstappen requires him to. To use that to look around at Mercedes and Aston Martin betrays the trust and is in my opinion quite disloyal to the people at Red Bull and Red Bull Powertrains.

Even if Marko were to retire in say 1-3 year time. Newey to go elsewhere or retire himself. There is still a damn strong team of people and whatever anyone thinks of Christian you can bet he will do whatever it takes to make the RBPT project successfull. If Red Bull can keep Wache and the other top engineers then there is plenty of reason for them to continue to be at or near the front.

Verstappen said in Abu Dhabi that he could see himself race for Red Bull to the end of his career. Guess he really just ment Helmut Marko.

I am actually a bit surprised at why things soured between Max and Horner. Horner in 2021 was team Max more than team RB, and in some cases even downplayed the car a bit and fought for him at every chance against Mercedes.

[Sieper]

Indeed. With red bull's decision to build their own PU from scratch, it made Max's options seem like Ferrari, AMR and Mercedes. Maybe Max would've stayed to see if RB could do something with RBPT, but the power struggle maybe just accelerated his inevitable departure.

Ferrari is now off the table and AMR seem to be persisting with Stroll so Merc seems obvious to me

To be fair, RB did put a lot of effort into making a deal with Porsche, but Porsche was unrealistic with their expectations. You can't sit at the table with arguably the most competent team at the time and expect them to let you de facto take control over the operation.

With all that, I fully support the decision to go it alone. The problem? Marko and Jos started blaming Horner for the failed deal. Honda was also not completely sure they will continue in F1 past 2025 iirc, I'd also be frustrated at their indecisiveness and seek a support-role partner for RBPT.

Painfull short term, but will bear fruit long term. Not exactly attractive to Marko and Verstappens, who are focused on their own success of course. As for Newey, he'd be able to continue for a while for sure and RB did start reducing their dependancy on him as a part of long term strategy obviously. However, politics and bad atmosphere in the team alienated him and some people say neither Wache nor Balbo are enjoying things and might also leave soon.

Before people start acussing Horner for everything, they should understand it takes two to tango. Marko and Verstappen short term vision would leave the team vulnerable and dependable long term. They then proceeded to introduce the clause behind Horner's back. Honestly, that was a very dishonest move for people who claim moral high ground...If you don't agree with a big strategical decision, just walk away without a fuss instead of "whistleblowing" internal affairs and leaving the whole Red Bull group exposed to court of public opinion

You are forgetting one aspect, if Porsche is kept out of the door (and Honda shown the door) it means Horner will retain total control, backed by the 51% owners yoovidyhas now. So for him, yes, it makes total sense. But for the team as a whole? Pushing out redbull GmbH, that háve built this team up (yoovidhya has nothing to with that) and Porsche, in favor of building the engine all alone. I am not so positive about if that is all in the best interest of the entire team.

We are already seeing it is not.

[Sieper]

Before people start acussing Horner for everything, they should understand it takes two to tango. Marko and Verstappen short term vision would leave the team vulnerable and dependable long term. They then proceeded to introduce the clause behind Horner's back. Honestly, that was a very dishonest move for people who claim moral high ground...If you don't agree with a big strategical decision, just walk away without a fuss instead of "whistleblowing" internal affairs and leaving the whole Red Bull group exposed to court of public opinion

Exactly, I find that quite disappointing from Verstappen and Marko. I mean why would Marko even do such a thing, certainly not for the best of the team. Just to protect himself.

It undermines the strategic decision that Horner and Marko took to pay up big and secure Verstappen to bridge the transition period from Honda engines to RBPT, which I thought was such a wise decision at the time. Even in the case of initial under performance of the engine, Verstappen's performance would ensure that Red Bull wouldn't entirely fall off a cliff in the WDC.

And in Verstappens case he knew what he signed up for with RBPT always being a challenging prospect for Red Bull certainly on a short term basis. Since he backed Marko, Marko is now in his dept and will move aside if Verstappen requires him to. To use that to look around at Mercedes and Aston Martin betrays the trust and is in my opinion quite disloyal to the people at Red Bull and Red Bull Powertrains.

Even if Marko were to retire in say 1-3 year time. Newey to go elsewhere or retire himself. There is still a damn strong team of people and whatever anyone thinks of Christian you can bet he will do whatever it takes to make the RBPT project successfull. If Red Bull can keep Wache and the other top engineers then there is plenty of reason for them to continue to be at or near the front.

Verstappen said in Abu Dhabi that he could see himself race for Red Bull to the end of his career. Guess he really just ment Helmut Marko.

I am actually a bit surprised at why things soured between Max and Horner. Horner in 2021 was team Max more than team RB, and in some cases even downplayed the car a bit and fought for him at every chance against Mercedes.

Horner has been saying and doing things that are the opposite of what you say for the longest time. He is very good with words and politicking though. Also in 21 Newey said they had the best car, so that also sounds the opposite to what you say. Max had to fight against two Mercedes that whole year. Mercedes put a new engine in Bottas’ car in turkey so that max couldn’t take full points there while Hamilton was stacking up engines for later. That race itself and in Abu Dhabi was the only times checo was able to help out. That last race is where checo offered up his race, all other races he could fight for his own chances. Unlike Bottas.

We always get these narratives but this is still the redbull thread, be it as many people are now coming in to dish out, we here have been closely watching what is going on with the team for years.

[f1isgood]

Exactly, I find that quite disappointing from Verstappen and Marko. I mean why would Marko even do such a thing, certainly not for the best of the team. Just to protect himself.

It undermines the strategic decision that Horner and Marko took to pay up big and secure Verstappen to bridge the transition period from Honda engines to RBPT, which I thought was such a wise decision at the time. Even in the case of initial under performance of the engine, Verstappen's performance would ensure that Red Bull wouldn't entirely fall off a cliff in the WDC.

And in Verstappens case he knew what he signed up for with RBPT always being a challenging prospect for Red Bull certainly on a short term basis. Since he backed Marko, Marko is now in his dept and will move aside if Verstappen requires him to. To use that to look around at Mercedes and Aston Martin betrays the trust and is in my opinion quite disloyal to the people at Red Bull and Red Bull Powertrains.

Even if Marko were to retire in say 1-3 year time. Newey to go elsewhere or retire himself. There is still a damn strong team of people and whatever anyone thinks of Christian you can bet he will do whatever it takes to make the RBPT project successfull. If Red Bull can keep Wache and the other top engineers then there is plenty of reason for them to continue to be at or near the front.

Verstappen said in Abu Dhabi that he could see himself race for Red Bull to the end of his career. Guess he really just ment Helmut Marko.

I am actually a bit surprised at why things soured between Max and Horner. Horner in 2021 was team Max more than team RB, and in some cases even downplayed the car a bit and fought for him at every chance against Mercedes.

Horner has been saying and doing things that are the opposite of what you say for the longest time. He is very good with words and politicking though. Also in 21 Newey said they had the best car, so that also sounds the opposite to what you say. Max had to fight against two Mercedes that whole year. Mercedes put a new engine in Bottas’ car in turkey so that max couldn’t take full points there while Hamilton was stacking up engines for later. That race itself and in Abu Dhabi was the only times checo was able to help out. That last race is where checo offered up his race, all other races he could fight for his own chances. Unlike Bottas.

We always get these narratives but this is still the redbull thread, be it as many people are now coming in to dish out, we here have been closely watching what is going on with the team for years.

Newey used the word probably and said quicker car after AD. I do remember that. And this was after Horner was projecting Max as being a hero doing magical things though and downplaying the car. Especially when Merc had 2 to 3 tenth race pace advantage towards the end, Horner did play up Max significantly, and I would even say rightly so given that's probably how you motivate your staff, especially when you are unable to provide them with the right resources to succeed. What I meant by downplaying the car is that RB still did have a car to comfortably get P2 those last 4 races. Bottas was a non-factor at that point, since he didn't have the "spicy" engine.

But yeah Horner is very good with words and politicking but generally speaking the entire team seemed so emotionally invested in Max's success that year, so I thought they would have a much stronger bond than it breaking up into pieces over a power struggle and Horner's transgressions at work, which he has been cleared of, by the team, all while they are enjoying so much success on track. I still remember the post AD scenes, it was almost stuff of dreams.

Bottas was definitely a better second fiddle than Perez that year no doubt. Max did have to fight two Mercedes at many races as well. I am just saying that Red Bull had a car to win both titles that year if you normalize for luck. Max was obviously the better lead driver, far more consistent, Perez was not as good as Bottas. These two, combined with a heavy dose of bad luck meant the constructors slipped away.

I think at the end of the day I think Mercedes won the constructors because of good luck, and Bottas being better than Perez.

[ME4ME]

You are forgetting one aspect, if Porsche is kept out of the door (and Honda shown the door) it means Horner will retain total control, backed by the 51% owners yoovidyhas now. So for him, yes, it makes total sense. But for the team as a whole? Pushing out redbull GmbH, that háve built this team up (yoovidhya has nothing to with that) and Porsche, in favor of building the engine all alone. I am not so positive about if that is all in the best interest of the entire team.

We are already seeing it is not.

Be honest now..

Mark Mateschitz and Oliver Mintzlaff have just as little to do with Red Bull Racing's success as Yoovidhya.

Honda couldn't decide which side of the door they wanted to be on.

And Horner quite rightly wanted to keep decision making out of a boardroom. He and Marko would've been better of running the team together with the blessing of Yoovidhya and financial backing from the entire Red Bull empire to make RBPT succeed regardless of a slow start.

[Sieper]

Dietrich Mateschitz had éverything to do with it though. Hebhas build the redbull drinks company to be a commercial succes and the redbull racing team is entirely his doing.

To me it is strange that the yoovidyha’s (onboarded by Horner) are suddenly boss (based on the 51%). It makes it an entirely different team looking at it one way.

Why are the other redbull marketing budget build sports teams not suddenly experiencing the same, Redbull Salzburg and Leipzig football teams? Perhaps as they are not wholly owned?

It is all just very unfortunate, a good and stable team, Dietrich passes away and maybe the construction wasn’t secure enough but the team is now all but.

[Elite]

Newey is the reason red bull is successful.

It's funny watching the cope in here, keep it coming

[the EDGE]

If Newey is off… does that mean he’ll immediately cease work on the F1 side of things?

That would be a big blow to their hopes for 2026, and a boost for every other team