Lando Norris 10second stop/go penalty - Qatar 2024

[chrisc90]

I guess Max was the only one to come fully off the throttle and even brake.

It is a valid point however.... How much is a significant lift. I think you should have to fully lift and/or slow down to a certainly reasonable speed. Of course its impossible to have set speeds for every area of the track that would be covered by a yellow. I see no harm in a 20-40% reduction in speed in that area under double yellows..

[mwillems]

The documents from the 2021 Austrian GP suggest that the drivers didn't lift sufficiently, not that they didn't lift. Why is it that they lifted and got punished? Because your rationale is not correct.

You are expressing a very strong opinion for very weak facts. Similar to the persons on track this is just wrong, they did no lift. Back then also Sergio Perez, Carlos Sainz, Pierre Gasly, Charles Leclerc, Antonio Giovinazzi, and Daniel Ricciardo were under investigation because of the sector times. All of them showed a lift in the telemetry, the two punished drivers not.

It seems like you have a problem with a rule no one else has a problem with. Not even Lando, not even McLaren.

"subjective"

I think your definition of subjective and objective is weird/wrong. I am not here to discuss wordings just for the sake of discussion.

Again: The claims here were a clear accusation of the stewards. Unfair, unbiased and impolite. That is what I do not like.
Enough time and topics to criticize the stewards in case of the usual grey area crashes and fights. But in this clear case it is just bad manners.

I haven't said the stewards did anything wrong. The points I'm talking about revolve around race control.

Stewards can't penalise drivers not reported to them by race control,just like Marshalls can't red flag a race...!

And yes Mclaren have indeed publicly called for an enquiry by the FIA because of the handling of the incident.

[chrisc90]

Calling for a enquiry is just feeble in my excuse.

What are they expecting? Cant exactly not believe your driver didnt respect the rules, then complain about the rules.

[Watto]

I don't really have an issue with the double waved yellows used.

I think it was perhaps resemble mirror right in the middle of the track. Just off the racing line where any overtake would have to take place in the DRS zone I think its a little different to debris on the edge of the track where its less certain to be hit where a normal yellow would do.

I think the double waved yellows while they figured out if they needed a VSC or full SC - the FIA's excuse of not a big enough gap to get a marshal in and out cleanly enough is fair. So give them time to assess but the taking too long doing nothing until after the inevitable happened is extremely poor. I think they had to make the call between VSC or SC .

As for did other drivers lift enough I guess that can be debated to the end of time I think the others at least showed awareness,, Max I think no doubt did it with game in mine to try and catch Lando out a little - I doubt he slowed as much as he did if he was in Landos position. Certainly a lot of grey. But it brings me to why I don't rally like Stellas idea of an appropriate punishment for appropriate breach of rules. Suddenly you will, IMO, just fine too many different punishment for vague reasons. Rather than a clearly defined rule and punishment.

[FW17]

We have seen debris on track and no clean up many times.

[maxxer]

All this discussion about it, double waved yellow means you need to be able to stop
Its the same as driving a road car , light goes orange what do people do ? Check if there is a red light speed camera and then they stop if there is not they will just speed through the orange.
Punishment was right and you dont go flat out through double yellow or single.

[Watto]

We have seen debris on track and no clean up many times.

Right but often I think its smaller the mirror was kinda big as pointed out in the DRSzone/the one real overtaking zone on the track it was almost the center of the road. They could get away with it if it was right on the edge often I think. just the middle it was always going to be hit through normal driving.

The edge of the track I think its often feasible that it won't be hit, not an over taking zone etc.

[PapayaFan481]

Slightly off topic, but I'm currently watching highlights of old seasons after reading Damon Hill's autobiography and it is striking just how many drivers got stop go penalties back then. I think in one race they had more than we get in a season now.

Am I right in thinking they didn't have the option of simple time penalties back then?

[PapayaFan481]

All this discussion about it, double waved yellow means you need to be able to stop
Its the same as driving a road car , light goes orange what do people do ? Check if there is a red light speed camera and then they stop if there is not they will just speed through the orange.
Punishment was right and you dont go flat out through double yellow or single.

Agreed.

For me, the ultimate solution would be a step down to pit lane limiter for the area covered by double waved yellows.

[Watto]

All this discussion about it, double waved yellow means you need to be able to stop
Its the same as driving a road car , light goes orange what do people do ? Check if there is a red light speed camera and then they stop if there is not they will just speed through the orange.
Punishment was right and you dont go flat out through double yellow or single.

Agreed.

For me, the ultimate solution would be a step down to pit lane limiter for the area covered by double waved yellows.

I see that as bringing in a few issues.'

if plenty of notice I can see it as being okay as with the pit lane.

But first to the scene if cars as following one another closely if the guy in front engages tthe limited drops from 360kmph to 80kmph suddenyly because he saw the flags, the guy behind didn't see them (as Lando didn't ) its an accident waiting to happen. A delay before it is enforced too easily leads to someone gaining an advantage even more so if first at the scene knows about the flag is there and does the minimum to get by slight lift etc/


Next lap? Well does doesn't really do anything that stops Landos penalty in this situation nor does it stop what the drivers did a slight lift.

I like the idea of a set limit on speed or a delta - can they have a say sector 1 VSC? maintains gaps? Or just a higher top speed but not where it might catch someone out

[Rodak]

All this discussion about it, double waved yellow means you need to be able to stop
Its the same as driving a road car , light goes orange what do people do ? Check if there is a red light speed camera and then they stop if there is not they will just speed through the orange.
Punishment was right and you dont go flat out through double yellow or single.

Is that really how you drive on public roads? If you have time to check for a camera you have time to stop. If I see a yellow and can stop before the intersection I do so. If I can't stop I don't speed up to beat the light, I slow down and go through the intersection. I've almost been nailed by light runners a few times and think it's really stupid driving, especially knowing the driving skill level of the general public.

[maxxer]

All this discussion about it, double waved yellow means you need to be able to stop
Its the same as driving a road car , light goes orange what do people do ? Check if there is a red light speed camera and then they stop if there is not they will just speed through the orange.
Punishment was right and you dont go flat out through double yellow or single.

Is that really how you drive on public roads? If you have time to check for a camera you have time to stop. If I see a yellow and can stop before the intersection I do so. If I can't stop I don't speed up to beat the light, I slow down and go through the intersection. I've almost been nailed by light runners a few times and think it's really stupid driving, especially knowing the driving skill level of the general public.

Thats what i meant , I never expect because its green it wont change to yellow when you get close but , i have also met those lightrunners. hate such

[Peter Piper]

I didn't think Norris ignored the double waved yellows, it was more that he didn't see them which frankly is more worrying.