Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Tommy Cookers]

... the rules allow that only under braking. Any other means of recovery by the MGU-K, means 'extra' recovery over and above the 2mj per lap allowed by the rules.

Ispanol6. ''When compering with the FERRARI engine, the FERRARI electric motor (MGU-K) is listed as making 163 bhp/130 kw'' This is not possible according to the rules.....

the MGU-K can recover whenever the accelerator displacement has dropped (with or without brake pedal action)

in motoring the MGU-K can legally draw from the DC line at 126.3 kW
(because the '120 kW' rules assume 5% loss from DC power draw to mechanical power added to crankshaft)
maybe Ferrari just saying their MGU-K is rated ie safe to 130 kW ? - or maybe it's a typo ?
(a metric bhp is 735.5 kW but an 'English-speaking' bhp is 745.7 kW)
126.3 kW draw with 5% loss corresponds to a mechanical output of 120 kW/163 metric bhp

[gruntguru]

Goodness me - they have been using the ICE to drive the MGU-K!!!

If intended to mean 'driving the MGU-K by ICE power', the answer is no, as the MGU-K recovery rules does not allow that. Of course the MGU-K is actually 'driven' by the ICE crankshaft when recovering, but the rules allow that only under braking. Any other means of recovery by the MGU-K, means 'extra' recovery over and above the 2mj per lap allowed by the rules.

You should make it clear that this is only your opinion.
Honda has a different opinion.
https://global.honda/en/tech/motorsport ... om=related

Control technology since the 2014 season. Paragraph 6:
"Under partial throttle when starting to exit a corner, a different control technology called partial recovery is employed. It is used to generate electricity by diverting excess output to the MGU-K after the engine generates enough output to meet the driver’s needs."

[saviour stivala]

Of course it is my opinion, which is based on the ERS rules.

[ispano6]

in motoring the MGU-K can legally draw from the DC line at 126.3 kW
(because the '120 kW' rules assume 5% loss from DC power draw to mechanical power added to crankshaft)
maybe Ferrari just saying their MGU-K is rated ie safe to 130 kW ? - or maybe it's a typo ?
(a metric bhp is 735.5 kW but an 'English-speaking' bhp is 745.7 kW)
126.3 kW draw with 5% loss corresponds to a mechanical output of 120 kW/163 metric bhp

I thought it was interesting yes, but it wasn't a typo. Curious, because Honda published 120 kw/161bhp.
In any case, I am very happy that Andy Cowell is at AMR. I would imagine that he, Honda, and Valvoline are busy preparing for 2026 and that any nuance or loophole would be looked at by Mr. Cowell.

[gruntguru]

in motoring the MGU-K can legally draw from the DC line at 126.3 kW
(because the '120 kW' rules assume 5% loss from DC power draw to mechanical power added to crankshaft)
maybe Ferrari just saying their MGU-K is rated ie safe to 130 kW ? - or maybe it's a typo ?
(a metric bhp is 735.5 kW but an 'English-speaking' bhp is 745.7 kW)
126.3 kW draw with 5% loss corresponds to a mechanical output of 120 kW/163 metric bhp

I thought it was interesting yes, but it wasn't a typo. Curious, because Honda published 120 kw/161bhp.

The metric horsepower is a little bit smaller than the imperial horsepower.
1 mhp = 0.9859 ihp
163 mhp = 161 ihp

[saviour stivala]

An MGU-K is an electric motor. Electric motors power output, not the power input/not the power consumed. is the actual power developed at the output shaft. This power output is ordinarily stated in Watts or Kilowatts. So when HP output of MGU-K is quoted, IHP is quoted, the power produced at its output shaft is the right quote. Yes. Indicated HP, and not BHP or HP, which when quoted can mean power delivered anywhere up to the rear wheels.

[Tommy Cookers]

.. when HP output of MGU-K is quoted, IHP is quoted, the power produced at its output shaft is the right quote. Yes. Indicated HP ...

nonsense !

anyway IHP applies only to heat engines
it is the power released eg in-cylinder ....
it is calculated from pressure & volume measurements made inside the cylinder throughout the (piston) motion cycle
the cylinder pressure-volume cycle is recorded eg on paper by a dedicated device called an ...... INDICATOR

Indicated HP - Friction HP will equal Brake HP ie power measured at the crankshaft

[Juzh]

Honda RBPTH002
Published Output: 740 bhp/552 kW + 161 bhp/120 kW

When comparing with the Ferrari engine, the Ferrari electric motor is listed as making 163 bhp/130kW.
Curiously, when looking at the power output data on VCARBs updated website, the RBPTH002 is published to make 901HP combined total horsepower compared to 985HP (or 958HP, can't find that screenshot anymore) which is what was on the VCARB01 Launch Video animated sequence which they've taken down. I wonder if something happened during the season that forced them to run detuned, whether by caution or enforcement.

Promotional videos and public website data are not to be taken at face value and certainly not as fact. They just write whatever they think is appropriate at the moment they're putting up the content. Why in the world would an engine need a detune of 60 hp, or 85 even in the engine freeze era. Makes zero sense.

[saviour stivala]

''Promotional videos and public website data are not to be taken at face value and certainly not as a fact''. Yes, fully agree, But still right on here, which is regarded as the top and best technical forum, standing rules and regulations as well as the spirit they are meant to be, seems to be temporary pushed aside/forgotten or skipped over when pushing-out a technical opinion and or carrying over what was printed/said by such websites as the above, An example is the repeating/carry-over "MGU-K claimed of producing 163 hp" "EXTRA HARVESTING capability'', just like 'EXTRA' which means over and above what the rules allow, is OK.

[kctrj]

do we have any news on the new honda engine where it will run in the final races?
will they change something inside the engine to push it more?
this engine change in the max perstapen car is perhaps intentional.

[saviour stivala]

Development of the present power unite has been frozen to the end of its use.

[HPD]

Alpine Racing SAS (“Alpine”) and Honda Racing Corporation (“HRC”) were found to be in Procedural Breach of the Power Unit Financial Regulations notwithstanding the fact that their Relevant Costs during the 2023 reporting period were under the Cost Cap. The Cost Cap Administration offered to both Power Unit Manufacturers (“PUMs”) an Accepted Breach Agreement (“ABA”) to resolve these matters. The offer was accepted by both PUMs.

HRC must pay a Financial Penalty of USD 600,000 to the FIA within 30 days of the date of
execution of the ABA

https://www.fia.com/news/accepted-breac ... nda-racing

[kctrj]

Development of the present power unite has been frozen to the end of its use.

This is the half truth.
If engine has issue they can open it and makes more reliable .
More reliable means more power by ecu

[Honda Porsche fan]

Does anyone know the horsepower figures between engine manufactures for the 2024 season? Who's got the advantage? Any websites or links where one can see the numbers?

There seems to be some difference in sound/tone between the engine manufacturers. David Land who has his own youtube racing channel who is a sideline reporter attended the Las Vegas GP and said the Mercedes sounded the best, that was his opinion obviously.

[diffuser]

Does anyone know the horsepower figures between engine manufactures for the 2024 season? Who's got the advantage? Any websites or links where one can see the numbers?

There seems to be some difference in sound/tone between the engine manufacturers. David Land who has his own youtube racing channel who is a sideline reporter attended the Las Vegas GP and said the Mercedes sounded the best, that was his opinion obviously.

I would say that sounds has little to do with which one is better. The sound mainly come from the waste gate exits. These were mandated by the FIA to increase the volume of the engine off-throttle.