A shameless image thread for the enginephiles

[gruntguru]

so Porsche calling their engines Boxer but really this is wrong naming ...nitpicky as Germans are this is outright scandalous..

And the same goes for those Italian F1 engines, they were all 180 degree V12s and not Boxers, this is an outrage!

You mean the Berlinetta Boxer was not a . . . . . "Boxer"? Outrageous indeed!!

[xpensive]

There you go grunts, I can see lawsuits on the horizon...!

[wuzak]

I have a vague recollection that the Alfa Romeo flat 12 was a boxer. I haven't found anything that shows whether it was or not.

Does anybody know about this engine?

[xpensive]

There's no way wuz, a true 12 cylinder "Boxer", according to Felix' definition anyway, would be a mile long.

[Sombrero]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tl3ZMRf1t8[/youtube]

[-Felix-]

There's no way wuz, a true 12 cylinder "Boxer", according to Felix' definition anyway, would be a mile long.

How dare you, I did not say that! It would be at least 1.327 miles long!

[xpensive]

Porsche's (or is it a Subaru?) true Boxer 6, imagine two of these wuz?

[wuzak]

Porsche's (or is it a Subaru?) true Boxer 6, imagine two of these wuz?

http://cars.natemichals.com/wp-content/ ... e_911a.jpg

My recollection is that the Alfa flat 12 was quite a bit longer than the Ferrari flat 12.

But my memory could be faulty....

[xpensive]

A 12-crank crankshaft, I doubt is, not even Porsche tried that as Felix pointed out?



But I wonder if this was a true Boxer, looks like it from the staggered cylinders?

[wuzak]

Staggered cylinders would also be made when two rods are on the same crank pin.

Edit: I've changed my mind - I don't think that is a boxer.

[wuzak]

The Alf certainly doesn't look liek a boxer in the cutaway



Whereas the Alfasud is

[xpensive]

Great images wuz, I do belive the Porsche 8 is a Boxer, dramatic staggering, the Alfa 12 is interesting for other reasons.

The central cam-drive and twin ignition-units, but are you certain this is the 70s engine, You might have it confused with this?



The never raced 4WD 1954 Alfa Romeo 160

[-Felix-]

Yes, except the 912 all other porsche flat engines were "real boxers"

[gruntguru]

Flat 12 has basically the same balance as an inline 6 ie good - although looking at the cutaways the Alfa seems to have 30 deg crankpin phasing (inline six = 60 degree phasing). The Porsche OTOH looks to have 60 deg phasing.

[Tommy Cookers]

not an issue for (resultant) balance, 'just' a detail of crankshaft design that can govern main bearing count and engine size/weight

8 cylinders or less has almost never been a 180 deg V, because the balance would then be as bad as an inline 4 (or 3 or twin etc)
the 2 litre Tecno, said ex ? , was an example of the 180 deg V 8
the 1952ish Anderson F2 180 deg V 8 had 2 main bearings (an 8 cylinder 'boxer' might need 9 main bearings eg the 1962 Porsche F1)

the 12 cylinder 180 deg V (non-boxer boxer) can have fewer than 7 main bearings unless it's too long (eg due to air cooling- Porsche)
ie the trend-setting and dominant (1970s) 180 deg V 12 cyl Ferrari F1 'boxer' had 4 main bearings - that was a big point
presumably Alfa emulated this feature in their 70s (flat 12) race engines ?

not in the 1950s Tipo 160 (derived from the 1940s secret 512 ?, and maybe over-cautious in bearing matters and so in length)
the tipo 160 car (an incomplete project) had a cast structure, 4 wd, and front mid-engine (driver's seat behind rear axle line)
the seating position was tried by modifying a 159 and worked well, presumably due to better weight distribution and traction