Most peculiar suspensions.

[Holm86]

Perhaps not peculiar but I love this video from Koenigsegg explaining their Triplex suspension.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbgjRBT4ltM[/youtube]

[Sombrero]

Connew F-1 (1972)



The radiator, located in the nose, was positioned nearly parallel to the road surface, with the intake air drawn from below. This provided for a flat, wide nose to generate downforce without resorting to larger, heavier and more complicated hip-mounted radiators.



The rear suspension was designed with wide-based A-arms to eliminate the need for radius rods, which Peter thought unnecessary. Robin Herd used a similar design in the March 721X and radius rod-less rear suspension soon after became the de facto standard for Formula One cars.

more on the topic here : http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... f=1&t=6380

[wuzak]

I'm glad you seem to enjoy the thread Ciro, in all its peculiarities.

The below suspension was indeed very peculiar, as it had polycarbonate skirts hinged to it, see the wires and levers;

http://www.sportscars.tv/cars45/2J.jpg

Were the skirts hinged to the suspension or to the chassis? Looks to me like the skirts were suspended from the chassis.

[wuzak]

Bugatti type 251 De Dion suspension, 1956, contender for worst suspension evar. Evaar!
https://sites.google.com/site/ciropabon/Bugatti251.png

Because it was de Dion or becuase of the unusual positioning of the springs and dampers?

In 1956 de Dion suspension wasn't unusual. The front suspension, with solid axle, leading arms and pushrod activated springs/shocks, was!

http://simanaitissays.files.wordpress.c ... utaway.jpg

http://simanaitissays.com/2013/04/16/bugatti-f1/

http://www.flickr.com/groups/954530@N25/

Can't fins an actual pictre of it, though.

[xpensive]

....
Were the skirts hinged to the suspension or to the chassis? Looks to me like the skirts were suspended from the chassis.

...
In 1956 de Dion suspension wasn't unusual. The front suspension, with solid axle, leading arms and pushrod activated springs/shocks, was!
...

Semantics police today, are we?

The skirts were wired to the suspension in such a way they kept a given ground-clearance regardless of the chassis vertical movement.

Happy?

[wuzak]

Mercedes Benz T80. Yes, this isn't even a racing car, "just" a speed-record-attempt car. The peculiarity of this spartan suspension is dwarfed by the bizarreness of the gearbox. Man, this is a huge engine.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_suiHYNm_lag/T ... 5262-3.jpg

The engine was the Daimler-Benz DB 603.

Like the DB 600, 601 and 605, the DB 603 was inverted. That means that the crankshaft is near the top and probably explains the shape of the gearbox.

The DB 603 was a mere 44.5l.

[wuzak]

Semantics police today, are we?

Always!

The skirts were wired to the suspension in such a way they kept a given ground-clearance regardless of the chassis vertical movement.

Did not know that, and I don't think it is clear from the picture.

I was asking the question, and now you have clarified the situation I am happy.

[xpensive]

...
Did not know that, and I don't think it is clear from the picture.
...

Yes it is, if you look close enough the levers and wires are pretty obvious.

[FW17]

[Tommy Cookers]

that red thing, is it the Milliken car or there was another in those days ??

[wuzak]

...
Did not know that, and I don't think it is clear from the picture.
...

Yes it is, if you look close enough the levers and wires are pretty obvious.

I didn't see the cables the first time I looked. But I do see them now.

[FW17]

that red thing, is it the Milliken car or there was another in those days ??

Milliken @ Goodwood

[Ciro Pabón]

Bugatti type 251 De Dion suspension, 1956, contender for worst suspension evar. Evaar!

Because it was de Dion or becuase of the unusual positioning of the springs and dampers?

In 1956 de Dion suspension wasn't unusual...

Of course not. In 1956 most cars had a De Dion. However, as a long haired racer (the Jew one) once said: "You'll know them by their fruits".

That car was so sh1tty that sh1t was ashamed of being around it.

It had a very good designer, a poor engine and a catastrophic suspension.

The reason is not simple, or so I think. It's related with previous models of Bugatti being very successful because of an excellent suspension (i.e. sweep rigid live axle) and a tendency to use whatever is in vogue (i.e. De Dion), put together. Horrible recipe.

I guess that's a mistake similar to the V6 turbos: V6 are in vogue and turbos were successful.

Will it work? Hard to say but probably, no.

I can imagine now the oh, so many threads about turbo lagging next year. I already hate them... but I digress. Let's go back to the eminent scatological qualities of that Bugatti 251 suspension.

You know, Bugatti always used rigid axles. Adapting them to a De Dion was more than what Gioacchino Colombo could manage.

Colombo was a truly famous designer, kind of the Newey of his time for engines: Ferrari 250, Alfa Romeo Alfetta, Maserati 250F and... the Bugatti 251.

Colombo engine: 12V, yes, but 1.5 liters?! This, my friends, is a work of art, comparable with Michelangelo's Moses or David. Behold in awe the origin of the name Testarossa (testa: head, rossa: red)


However, his Bugatti was a hog: raced once, classified 18 of 20 and died 18 laps into its first and only race.

The car suspension (and that is, still, the butt of some jokes) couldn't even manage to go in a straight line.

Beware of combining proven things with trendy things. It's like the Blackberry: it will never become an iPad, no matter how hard it tries.

Roland Bugatti, brother of Jean and son of Ettore never recovered from building that car (and you have to concede he built the last true Bugatti, the 101).

The atrocious design of the suspension of Bugatti 251 seems hard to digest, given that the Bugatti Type 35 is the most successful car in the history of GP racing, period.

Arguably, the best car in history: winner of more races than anyone. First Monaco GP? Of course it won the first Monaco GP! Actually, Monaco GP is famous because a Bugatti won the first race, not the other way.


So, talking about the virginity of Virgin Mary (I'm always on thread, as usual, even if I wander aimlessly talking about things nobody has to read... in a perfect world) there you go, talking about peculiar suspensions:

Bugatti Type 35 peculiar suspension. Springs pass through the (hollow) front axle. It's hard to imagine a simpler (and thus, lighter) suspension. The cable operates the brakes


Rigid axle, semielliptic leaf springs, positive camber, made this car a oversteering beast in an era of opposite-lock cars. Ponder that and tell me if suspension is not 90% of the character of the car


Friction dampers! Have you seen this before?


Alloy wheels, one nut: both first seen on the history of racing, and yes, I think they're a very important part of the suspension. The brake drums are integrated into the wheel, they're a structural part of the contraption. Why? Well, simple. Less unsprung weight and a bonus: new brakes with each change of tyres. Ettore, you're the greatest! So many things, and so simple at the same time. Even the wire keeping the bolt in place is beautiful.


Type 35 is King. Only 96 were made. So many details! From the braking axle that doubles as structural piece to the rearview mirror to the moire design of the dashboard, this is a beauty


This car is almost 100 years old... and is unrestored. Perfectly aged, proudly displaying its wear and tear, this car has raced. Few cars say so many things to me: hope you hear them too

[timbo]

In the lower formulae there was a car (mid-90s IIRC) which had BOTH pullrods and pushrods on front axle. Can't remember the make and model. If I find it I'd post here, maybe somebody else recalls that?

[Tommy Cookers]

@C P
the Bugatti was surely designed to be balanced, not tail-happy, so it put its power down rather well for those open-diff times
I remember Etancelin driving like a demon at Silverstone in 1969 ?, tail-out but no particular opposite lock

a cynic said that Bugatti springs were so stiff they might as well be castings

Bugatti actually made and raced a 1100cc ? car with no rear suspension
intended for oval tracks, it raced at Monthlery ? and defintely at Brooklands
without success