2022 Tyres Thread

[mzso]

But the teams ran simulations.

The teams are not Pirelli. They wouldn't just give away how fast they are.

[mzso]

I wonder why they didn't remain the the full disk sidewalls that the CFD model and I think the wind tunnel miniature showed.

I think they explained it in the more recent video of the new cars, something about the flow stayed better attached like this.

This might also form part of it too:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mcla ... cGrHyfEoog

Isola explained that revisions were required for the initial wheel cover designs for the 18-inch tyres to ensure they remained balance, and that pit crews could easily remove the tyres from the car.

“The first version of the rim cover was very close to the rim, and we had two problems. One was for the mechanics in the pit stops, because they need to put their fingers in and take the tyres off, and with the wheel cover it was not possible, so they had to modify it.

“The second was we couldn’t add the balanced weight on the outside. That’s why if you see the latest version of the wheel cover, there is a shape that is covering the rim, but then you have a step closer to the rim that is useful for the mechanics to take the tyre and for us to balance the weight.

“With this final version, we can balance the tyre when it’s fitted with the wheel and the wheel cover. Otherwise, if you add the wheel cover after balancing, it can be a problem.”

They had no troubles with almost full flat disks when they had sidewalls 15 years ago or such. So why aren't they doing it like that?

[CMSMJ1]

I wonder if the new wheels will slow down direction changes?
Surely the gyroscopic effect is greater with taller tyres?

What impact is this going to have on the pit crew that has to lift and run (at race pit stops) and bring them out to fit to the cars? Shouldn't that be a factor considered seriously?

Will these tyres be more prone to flatspotting? I don't know how to work it mathematically, but a gut feeling is that a bigger taller heavier unit 'feels' like it would flatspot more easily?

Can't all these questions be answered by watching F2, who have been using the tyres for two seasons?

In F2, it didn't seem to make all that much difference really.

You are not wrong to be fair - it made very little difference to my eyes.

The cars looked fast enough, agile enough and didn't really see that there were any more or lockups.

[notsofast]

It seems like the IHRA is leaking into F1.

[mclaren111]

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2021/12/ ... eir-debut/


Nice article...

[Stu]

LED’s - sponsor logos or red/orange for faux-brake disc glowing??

[mzso]

Speaking of wheels, I wonder if there's some rule that requires them to use a wheel nut, and if not why do they use them?
Why not just use a part that clasps on like a human hand. You'd only need a device that spreads it. Especially knowing that nowadays speed is cardinal.

On a different not. I still don't get why don't they do wheel shrouds like they did until 2010. Looking at pictures they could have done pretty much complete disks if the wanted to.

[Jolle]

Speaking of wheels, I wonder if there's some rule that requires them to use a wheel nut, and if not why do they use them?
Why not just use a part that clasps on like a human hand. You'd only need a device that spreads it. Especially knowing that nowadays speed is cardinal.

On a different not. I still don't get why don't they do wheel shrouds like they did until 2010. Looking at pictures they could have done pretty much complete disks if the wanted to.

Williams’ Sam Micheal explains is best I think; in short, it’s complex and more dangerous.

Williams, for example, had to make a big push to get their version on track. The team's technical director Sam Michael said:
"They very complicated actually, we were running them in testing last week at Barcelona. We did plan to take them to last couple of race, but we had problems, not with the aero side, but with the mechanical side. You can imagine its bit complicated to keep something still while everything around it is moving. We had problems with it before we could take it to the race. So we had a revised design at Barcelona last week.
From the aero side their pretty complex bit of kit, were still learning them to be honest.
The dimple at the top was there just for legality. That's why Ferraris looks like someone's done a messy job of trimming. Its controlled by the plus - minus 1600C heat overall on the brake ducts. The other thing is that you don't want the disc touching wheel because when carbon rubs on magnesium it will cut through it like butter, within a lap you wont have a wheel left. So you've got to be a bit careful you don't push for a bit extra and end up losing your wheel.

[mzso]

The other thing is that you don't want the disc touching wheel because when carbon rubs on magnesium it will cut through it like butter, within a lap you wont have a wheel left. So you've got to be a bit careful you don't push for a bit extra and end up losing your wheel.

Magnesium? What's the point in using magnesium when titanium is available? AFAIK titanium has the highest strength to weight ratio of metals.

[Tommy Cookers]

Magnesium? What's the point in using magnesium when titanium is available? AFAIK titanium has the highest strength to weight ratio of metals.

titanium is roughly 3 times as dense as magnesium

so a titanium wheel would need to be heavier
unless made so thin it would bend or buckle (so would a titanium monocoque)

magnesium monocoques were the lightest for this reason (as magnesium spaceframes eg Porsche 917 Merc W196)
(but c.1970 were forced to be artificially thick to reduce combustibility - so losing their weight advantage)

what we call strength-to-weight-ratio is assuming direct loads - not bending loads etc

[Jolle]

The other thing is that you don't want the disc touching wheel because when carbon rubs on magnesium it will cut through it like butter, within a lap you wont have a wheel left. So you've got to be a bit careful you don't push for a bit extra and end up losing your wheel.

Magnesium? What's the point in using magnesium when titanium is available? AFAIK titanium has the highest strength to weight ratio of metals.

It’s not my opinion but that of Sam Micheal. I think he knows a thing or two why wheels are made of magnesium.

[Marty_Y]

Magnesium? What's the point in using magnesium when titanium is available? AFAIK titanium has the highest strength to weight ratio of metals.

titanium is roughly 3 times as dense as magnesium

so a titanium wheel would need to be heavier
unless made so thin it would bend or buckle (so would a titanium monocoque)

magnesium monocoques were the lightest for this reason (as magnesium spaceframes eg Porsche 917 Merc W196)
(but c.1970 were forced to be artificially thick to reduce combustibility - so losing their weight advantage)

what we call strength-to-weight-ratio is assuming direct loads - not bending loads etc

The Mercedes-Benz 300 SLR (W 196 S) was a good example of the combustion of magnesium at the 1955 Le Mans disaster.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1955_Le_Mans_disaster

"The 300 SLR featured a body made of an ultra-lightweight magnesium alloy called Elektron. "

"When the rest of Levegh's car landed on the embankment, the rear-mounted fuel tank exploded. The fuel fire raised the temperature of the remaining Elektron bodywork past its ignition temperature, which was lower than that of other metal alloys due to its high magnesium content. The alloy burst into white-hot flames, showering the track and crowd with magnesium embers, made worse by rescue workers unfamiliar with magnesium fires who poured water onto the inferno, greatly intensifying the fire.[14][9] As a result, the car burned for several hours."

"The media also speculated on the violent fire that engulfed the wreck, which intensified when fire marshals poured their water-based extinguishers on the flames. They suggested that Mercedes-Benz had tampered with the official fuel-supply with an explosive additive, but the intensity of the fire was due instead to the magnesium-alloy construction of the chassis. Neubauer got the French authorities to test residual fuel left in the wreck's fuel injection and the result vindicated the company"

[cplchanb]

LED’s - sponsor logos or red/orange for faux-brake disc glowing??

just watch f1 mandate the led blingers display AWS tyre life data....

[mzso]

titanium is roughly 3 times as dense as magnesium

On its own this is meaningless.

what we call strength-to-weight-ratio is assuming direct loads - not bending loads etc

So you're implying Mg is stronger considering the loads a wheel gets?

[CMSMJ1]

The other thing is that you don't want the disc touching wheel because when carbon rubs on magnesium it will cut through it like butter, within a lap you wont have a wheel left. So you've got to be a bit careful you don't push for a bit extra and end up losing your wheel.

Magnesium? What's the point in using magnesium when titanium is available? AFAIK titanium has the highest strength to weight ratio of metals.

Can you find an application of titanium to any motorsport wheels?

Aluminium, Magnesium, Carbon - these are your options if you are looking to purchase some.

Am assuming F1 regs discount Carbon wheels...so Magnesium is the way forwards.