Imagine if we're stuck with this weirdly compromised engine reg just for VAG to not even show up to the playground.
- Login or Register
No account yet? Sign up
Imagine if we're stuck with this weirdly compromised engine reg just for VAG to not even show up to the playground.
He basically contradicts himself by first saying there will be no problems with the energy and then in the next sentence suggesting and unprecedented rules adjustments for certain tracks where sensible energy management will be difficult, if not impossible. Basically almost confirming RBs theory to certain extent.Talk of the 2026 regulation plans earlier this year was dominated by concerns from Red Bull in particular of there being potential for big problems on the horizon.
With the ICE element of the power unit going from around 550-560kw down to 400kw, and the battery element jumping from 150kw to 350kw, it was obvious that putting the future engines in the current cars would lead to battery power running out quite early on the straights.
And even with lighter cars, if drag was too high, places like Monza could be a challenge and force drivers to do weird stuff – like changing down gears on the straight – to try to get some recharging going.
Tombazis thinks those worries were unfounded and based on early simulation models that were far away from where things are at right now.
"These were comments that were probably a bit premature, because we hadn't completed the work yet," he said.
"We never believed that was a disaster scenario, because we knew that there were solutions.
"We believe that the combination of low drag on the cars, with the way that energy can be recovered or deployed, achieves a speed profile of these cars which is very similar to the current cars.
"So the cars won't be reaching the top speed in the middle of the straight and then degrading or anything like that. That's not going to be the case."
Tombazis said the FIA is clear that they want cars to be running hard into corners so drivers are heavy on the brakes – and not lifting and coasting and taking it easy on entry.
That will be more of a challenge at some venues with long straights, like Monza and Spa, but special allowances could be made at such places.
"There's some tweaks on the energy side of the engine that will achieve the correct characteristics," he said.
The problem is also battery size.Juzh wrote: ↑13 Dec 2023, 13:35Some new comments from Tombazis on the engine side of things for 2026+
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/reve ... /10557347/
He basically contradicts himself by first saying there will be no problems with the energy and then in the next sentence suggesting and unprecedented rules adjustments for certain tracks where sensible energy management will be difficult, if not impossible. Basically almost confirming RBs theory to certain extent.Talk of the 2026 regulation plans earlier this year was dominated by concerns from Red Bull in particular of there being potential for big problems on the horizon.
With the ICE element of the power unit going from around 550-560kw down to 400kw, and the battery element jumping from 150kw to 350kw, it was obvious that putting the future engines in the current cars would lead to battery power running out quite early on the straights.
And even with lighter cars, if drag was too high, places like Monza could be a challenge and force drivers to do weird stuff – like changing down gears on the straight – to try to get some recharging going.
Tombazis thinks those worries were unfounded and based on early simulation models that were far away from where things are at right now.
"These were comments that were probably a bit premature, because we hadn't completed the work yet," he said.
"We never believed that was a disaster scenario, because we knew that there were solutions.
"We believe that the combination of low drag on the cars, with the way that energy can be recovered or deployed, achieves a speed profile of these cars which is very similar to the current cars.
"So the cars won't be reaching the top speed in the middle of the straight and then degrading or anything like that. That's not going to be the case."
Tombazis said the FIA is clear that they want cars to be running hard into corners so drivers are heavy on the brakes – and not lifting and coasting and taking it easy on entry.
That will be more of a challenge at some venues with long straights, like Monza and Spa, but special allowances could be made at such places.
"There's some tweaks on the energy side of the engine that will achieve the correct characteristics," he said.
Even so, how exactly would this tweak work? Problem lies in energy recuperation itself, therefore only possible solution I can see is reduction in total mgu-k power output to much lower levels so battery can last longer, hardly a solution in my opinion.
Battery capacity limit is more arbitrary than recovery capabilities, which I guess will be maxed out and not possible to adjust with a few lines of rules. Batteries are over-sized in any case, right? So they could eat into this space, at possible cost to reliability.wuzak wrote: ↑13 Dec 2023, 15:25The problem is also battery size.Juzh wrote: ↑13 Dec 2023, 13:35Some new comments from Tombazis on the engine side of things for 2026+
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/reve ... /10557347/
He basically contradicts himself by first saying there will be no problems with the energy and then in the next sentence suggesting and unprecedented rules adjustments for certain tracks where sensible energy management will be difficult, if not impossible. Basically almost confirming RBs theory to certain extent.Talk of the 2026 regulation plans earlier this year was dominated by concerns from Red Bull in particular of there being potential for big problems on the horizon.
With the ICE element of the power unit going from around 550-560kw down to 400kw, and the battery element jumping from 150kw to 350kw, it was obvious that putting the future engines in the current cars would lead to battery power running out quite early on the straights.
And even with lighter cars, if drag was too high, places like Monza could be a challenge and force drivers to do weird stuff – like changing down gears on the straight – to try to get some recharging going.
Tombazis thinks those worries were unfounded and based on early simulation models that were far away from where things are at right now.
"These were comments that were probably a bit premature, because we hadn't completed the work yet," he said.
"We never believed that was a disaster scenario, because we knew that there were solutions.
"We believe that the combination of low drag on the cars, with the way that energy can be recovered or deployed, achieves a speed profile of these cars which is very similar to the current cars.
"So the cars won't be reaching the top speed in the middle of the straight and then degrading or anything like that. That's not going to be the case."
Tombazis said the FIA is clear that they want cars to be running hard into corners so drivers are heavy on the brakes – and not lifting and coasting and taking it easy on entry.
That will be more of a challenge at some venues with long straights, like Monza and Spa, but special allowances could be made at such places.
"There's some tweaks on the energy side of the engine that will achieve the correct characteristics," he said.
Even so, how exactly would this tweak work? Problem lies in energy recuperation itself, therefore only possible solution I can see is reduction in total mgu-k power output to much lower levels so battery can last longer, hardly a solution in my opinion.
Can't store enough energy to use on those long straights.
he seems the first to acknowledge that present F1 fuel has unlimited octane number (as I pointed out over 10 years)
The latest regulations were published today and there has been quite the overhaul to various sections but one that caught my eye was a change to the limits of power from ERS-K at various speeds. Prior to the latest issue the regulations were:
The latest version now reads:
- 5.4.7 Additionally, the electrical DC power of the ERS-K used to propel the car may not exceed:
P(kW)=1850-5* car speed (kph) when the car speed is below 340kph
150kW when the car speed is equal to or above 340kph
I know there are engine modes but I can't think of a prior time where there was a defined "Override" mode where the details are set out in the sporting regulations as to how you can use it. Note the sporting regulations at present do not contain said details.
- 5.4.8 Additionally, the electrical DC power of the ERS‐K used to propel the car may not exceed:
i)
P(kW) = 1800 – 5 * car speed (kph) when the car speed is below 340kph
P(kW) = 6900 – 20 * car speed (kph) when the car speed is equal to or above 340kph
P(kW) = 0 when the car speed is equal to or above 345kph
ii) In “override” mode up to:
P(kW) = 7100 – 20 * car speed (kph) when the car speed is below 355kph
P(kW) = 0 when the car speed is equal to or above 355kph
The details of the “override” mode are specified in the Sporting Regulations.
To me that sounds remarkably like an Overtake/Push-To-Pass mode.
EDIT
Turns out further reading the regulations is helpful as it outrightly says there will be an overtake mode later on in the regulations to be selected by the driver:
- 5.14.7
The driver maximum power demand cannot be increased during any full throttle period, except when the overtake mode, as specified in the Appendix to the Regulations, is selected by the driver.
Additionally he provides a power curve graphAlso to anyone reading these and wondering what it means in regards to the ERS power.
Up to 290kph you will be able to use the full 350kW of power from MGU-K.
From 290kph to 340kph there is a gradual decrease in power output from the MGU-K from 350kW to 100kW.
From 340kph to 345kph there is a more significant drop in power output from the MGU-K from 100kW to 0kW.
Above 345kph you will get no power from the MGU-K
With the "Override" mode there is no drop in power until you reach 337kph at which point there is a linear decrease to 0kW at 355kph
Some more info in this thread on X/twitter. Looks like the FIA might be looking to control a lot more aboutJuzh wrote: ↑28 Mar 2024, 22:17some good new info from reddit user zantkiller. In essence new rules now provide enablement for a push-to-pass system.
https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... technical/
The latest regulations were published today and there has been quite the overhaul to various sections but one that caught my eye was a change to the limits of power from ERS-K at various speeds. Prior to the latest issue the regulations were:
The latest version now reads:
- 5.4.7 Additionally, the electrical DC power of the ERS-K used to propel the car may not exceed:
P(kW)=1850-5* car speed (kph) when the car speed is below 340kph
150kW when the car speed is equal to or above 340kph
I know there are engine modes but I can't think of a prior time where there was a defined "Override" mode where the details are set out in the sporting regulations as to how you can use it. Note the sporting regulations at present do not contain said details.
- 5.4.8 Additionally, the electrical DC power of the ERS‐K used to propel the car may not exceed:
i)
P(kW) = 1800 – 5 * car speed (kph) when the car speed is below 340kph
P(kW) = 6900 – 20 * car speed (kph) when the car speed is equal to or above 340kph
P(kW) = 0 when the car speed is equal to or above 345kph
ii) In “override” mode up to:
P(kW) = 7100 – 20 * car speed (kph) when the car speed is below 355kph
P(kW) = 0 when the car speed is equal to or above 355kph
The details of the “override” mode are specified in the Sporting Regulations.
To me that sounds remarkably like an Overtake/Push-To-Pass mode.
EDIT
Turns out further reading the regulations is helpful as it outrightly says there will be an overtake mode later on in the regulations to be selected by the driver:
- 5.14.7
The driver maximum power demand cannot be increased during any full throttle period, except when the overtake mode, as specified in the Appendix to the Regulations, is selected by the driver.Additionally he provides a power curve graphAlso to anyone reading these and wondering what it means in regards to the ERS power.
Up to 290kph you will be able to use the full 350kW of power from MGU-K.
From 290kph to 340kph there is a gradual decrease in power output from the MGU-K from 350kW to 100kW.
From 340kph to 345kph there is a more significant drop in power output from the MGU-K from 100kW to 0kW.
Above 345kph you will get no power from the MGU-K
With the "Override" mode there is no drop in power until you reach 337kph at which point there is a linear decrease to 0kW at 355kph
https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... l/kwzmsfo/
https://i.imgur.com/ygMpulJ.png
taperoo2k wrote: ↑29 Mar 2024, 19:12
Some more info in this thread on X/twitter. Looks like the FIA might be looking to control a lot more about
the PU's. https://x.com/mollym_o/status/1773751805953872227?s=20