Racing in Argentina: Turismo Carretera / TopRace V6 / TC2000

[smirkoff]

Bellati and Ciro,

Just to add information to your VERY interesting thread:

Interlagos, the first circuit in Brazil, was built in 1938, and the inaugural race there was in May 12th 1940, won by Nascimento Júnior in an Alfa Romeo 3.5L. In second came Chico Landi, in a 3L Maserati. Landi began his career in the first Gavea race at Rio, in 1934, and would be later the first brazilian to race in Formula 1.

The "Itapecerica Race" of 1908, which in fact was a intercity road race in a 75km circuit between São Paulo, Embu and Itapecerica, was won by Sylvio Alvares Penteado in a Fiat 40HP, in 1h30min05sec, 55km/h average. It was the first official race held in the country, but since 1902 there were some race demonstrations in hypodromes in São Paulo and Rio.

And about the general Medici, he was not overthrown, he was substituted by another general of the same dictatorial regime, Ernesto Geisel, in a kind of programmed "rotation" of power with fake internal elections. The Brasilia track now is called "Circuito Nelson Piquet". Curiously, in the minor demonstration GP of 1974, Piquet, then a go-kart racer, got access to the boxes by the way of doing some work for the teams. One of his tasks then was to polish the helmet of Carlos Reutemann...

[Ciro Pabón]

Well, thanks Smirkoff, for your kind words. What I find interesting it's the info you give to us. Maybe the three of us should start a thread on the history of South American racing, a true "quarry" of some of the greatest drivers in history.

I sincerely think it's Belatti's thread.

However, I just came here to say this:

Villeneuve to race in Argentina Competing aboard a Volkswagen

The 1997 World Champion Jacques Villeneuve will race a saloon car as part of the Top Race series in Argentina this weekend.

The French Canadian, 37, will compete in a VW Passat against other ex-Formula One drivers Norberto Fontana and Gaston Mazzacane at the Juan+Oscar Galvez circuit in Buenos Aries -- and confessed that he "would like to win."

"I love Buenos Aires," said the former Williams, BAR and BMW Sauber driver, adding that "despite being different cars, compared to the NASCAR ones, this is a good opportunity for me to keep active and trained."

The Top Race series pits drivers against one another in similar-style touring cars powered by a 3-litre V6 engine, and regularly attracts grids of more than 40 cars.

"I will have the chance to test before the race and this is good, because although I have raced in Formula One, I do have to learn a lot," 11-time Grand Prix winner Villeneuve said.

Villeneuve left F1 in 2006, and has since finished second at Le Mans for Peugeot and is now pursuing a career in American NASCAR racing.

"Jacques, we love you!" say the world famous Bremen Girls


Villeneuve's Passat


A taste of what Villeneuve will confront (General Roca's race)

[Belatti]

Thanks Ciro for the post, I owe this thread a proper TOP RACE V6 + Villeneuve post and have my laptop broken, so was planning to post it after the race with the pics I will try to take there

Also, thank you Smirkoff for the info.

This thread started as TC, then expanded into other Argentine series and now it has become continental. The only thing I can say is: cool!

Jacques chatting with Spataro (current Top Race V6 Champion)


He said: "The track is very difficult, I liked the car but I have no idea if I was going fast or not yet, I will confirm it on Friday"
and
"I would like to win here, but the car is heavy and I´m not used to it. The other drivers are good and know their cars, so it will be difficult. It was really a pleasure to drive in the circuit where F1 used to run because it gives a real dimention of how crazy and brave racing drivers where in the past"

Obviously he was referring to the old layout used in the 70´s where drivers had to pass through the "Curvon Salotto", and impressive right hander that never ends and that make Monza´s parabolica and Suzukas 130R look like pieces of cake.

In red the old couples of long straights with "curvon Salotto"
In blue the layout "civilized F1" used in the mid 90´s.


To have an idea of the dimention of this curve, just mind that the "new" (in blue)layout is comparable in size and avg. speed with the Hungaroring.

[Belatti]

Well friends, it was a rainy sunday morning yesterday in Buenos Aires, so I choose to go to the Ferrari Bar in Buenos Aires and have breakfast among dozens of angry yelling Tifosis while watching Singapur GP instead of watching Top Race. My big problem was my car is broken and the track is far away from where I was yesterday

I saw the race from home: 44 cars started, 16 finished, 25 qualified. The race started with a dry track that began to wet slowly. Drivers who managed to stay in track driving carefully where the ones who finished -and won- the race. It was a thrilling unpredictable race that included many overtaking, lead changes and a turn over accident.

Jacques started 26th and was running 9th with a lap to go till he went out in a damped Salotto curve. He arrived 16th.

Henrry Martin, the winner

[Belatti]

TC (Turismo Carretera) has got the certificate from the guinness world recod book as the oldest motor racing championship still active today. The anual championship was first competed for in Argentina from 5 august, 1937.

http://polepositionweb.wordpress.com/20 ... os-record/



So, Ciro: Guinness gave you the reason!
(see the post from May 28th, 2008 )

[Belatti]

Great couple of news arround here, its said that TC is going to go back to "Potrero de los Funes", the same place where FIA GT raced last november.

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?nota_id=1111032

Also, I have heard there are plans going on to do a special edition of the mitical Buenos Aires - Caracas race.

http://www.clarin.com/diario/2009/03/14 ... 876971.htm

Ciro, get prepared to see something like 70 cars passing near by your house!!!

[Belatti]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYLKgK9vD88[/youtube]

Been searching for that video for years. If thats not racing, then what?

[Belatti]

This is TC2000 at Mendoza´s 2008 race. I will be heading there in a couple of weeks, hoping I can learn some more about these light 2 liter NA and FWD 310HP cars

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsr-T-hhDVY[/youtube]

[Ciro Pabón]

Caramba, what a great video the one of Di Palma. BTW, did you learn anything last weekend?

[Belatti]

Caramba, what a great video the one of Di Palma. BTW, did you learn anything last weekend?

Basically I was all the weekend importing data from the Motec dashboard to my laptop. On line telemetry is not allowed. The software is very user friendly, I had no problems to learn how to use it quickly. There are 3 cars in the team and we could compare many things, such as rpm, throttle position, brake pedal position, steering wheel position, shock speed and position, the 2 traction wheel speeds, engine oil pressure, water temp, alternator voltage, lateral and longitudinal acelerations...

I also experienced the way of working with the team director, the race engineers, the drivers, the chief of mechanics and the mechanics. Those guys have an incredible capability to repair a car right on time after a crash between the two sunday races. They basically reconstructed the glass fiber bargeboard of the car and the exhaust tube in 20 minutes =D>

The team staff is very profesional and was the best private team all the weekend, so Im basically happy, but now I want to contribute for even better results

[Belatti]

Well people, finally I have got some time to finish this megapost that I will call "TC Technical" to show and share with you some pics I took in one of the last TC races I went last year.

There are some interesting things to see, sometimes it may be hard to understand the whys but just in that case here are the TC Rules:
http://www.actc.org.ar/php/reglamentos.php


The first thing to understand is that there are 4 TC categories:
A) TC
B) TC Pista
C) TC Mouras
D) TC Mouras Pista

The top (and most competitive) series is the TC. When TC top teams build a new chasis, they drop their cars to smaller TC teams or to TCP teams... and top TCP teams drop their cars to TCM teams and so on.

This happens because one of the things where TC rules let engineers and designers free is in the steel frame structure. The best cars wont last more than 1 season before that they have to be reinforced/repaired with the obvious weight increase.
Structures are incredibly rigid (600Kgm torsion tests show arround 1mm deofrmations) and light taking in account that they are Ø50mm x 1.25mm MIG or TIG welded steel tubes.



In those 4 categories there are 4 "types" of cars allowed:



It is mainly because of tradition, that the external shapes and old engine cylinder blocks are still used:
* Ford Falcon
* Chevy SS
* Dodge Polara or R/T
* Torino (Argentine 70s car)

As it can be noticed, Dodge and Chevy has aerodynamic advantages over Torino and Ford, so the rules allow a couple things to help balance things:



That rear spoiler design is at least weird and I have seen it in many cars. Also I have heard that the roof top deflector have helped Fords to reduce the stall that produced a big downforce drop between 160 and 180 Kph and that disapeared at more than 180kph to regain downforce. Yeah, Ford drivers are special dudes and not any driver can adapt to that.

Another thing that is ruled to help balance things is front suspension geometry: 3 of the 4 wishbone-chasis mountings have a "window" of arround 50mm where you can place them. The 4th is free. Damper/spring mounting is also free.



BTW, the steel disc rotors rules changed a while ago to a 5Kg minimum front and 4 Kg minimum rear after some top teams where qualifying with special 1.5Kg rotors.

Rear suspension geometry is free but it has to be a live axle with 4 links. Check this weird damper-spring mounting point:



I guess they where looking to have a motion ratio that is different in bump than in roll. There was only 1 team I saw using with this stuff.



At the engine department, we have displacement limited to 3110cc. The ACTC (governing body) changes compression ratio for each make whenever it feels to, and they are in the 9.2 to 9.5 region.
Engines are straight-6, OHV of course, 2 per cylinder and feeded with one Weber 48 IDA carb.
They pump 380HP at arround 9500 rpm and there is a development going on to place aluminum multivalve cylinder heads and reach 450HP out from a 3 liter NA engine... with a block that was designed in the 50s!!!
With the current engines the top speeds are arround 280Kph, remember TC doesnt use oval tracks!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1YEeIcX ... re=related[/youtube]



Beyond "aero" rules being rather strict, there are interesting aero bits to analyze

Here I caught these guys changing the oil radiator intake (iys in the hood) and then I noticed that car had a chaneled-to the floor oil radiator exhaust:



The other cars use to have the oil rad together with the water heat exchanger, at the lower front.

Also, as the rules prohibit "closed wing profiles" at the front, some guys that need front DF uses craps like this:



Notice the cloth skirt that its allowed only at the front. The floor must be flat and cant have diffusers.

Finally, I have heard that these cars do well with more than 7° of caster. Power steering is not allowed and the cars weight 1200Kg, so the drivers that can withstand a race with a 9° caster and still be able to turn the wheel in the last lap has an advntage. TC is for "machos", the ACTC president said. I hope all the training Jose Lopez did helps him for this season

Thats all for now floks, Im off to bed now.

[xavier111]

Excellent Bellati !!. There were info that I didn't know !!. I'm a fan of TC!!...
Muy buena información, cosas que sinceramente no sabia!!!!

[Giblet]

wOW!!

My Argentina friend Dario, was my resident go to guy at work to talk about racing, and he would get would get so excited talking about TC like it was the second and third coming rolled into one.

I sort of disregarded his 'rantings' until one day over some wobbly pops he showed me some youtube videos.

I couldn't believe the how tight everyone was running, and how on edge. The cars look like the mean business, and are garagists in the true sense still.

Very impressive. One of the best racing treasures on the planet.

Oh and damn good post Bellati. Damn.

[Giblet]

*BUMP*

I rarely bump threads, but this one was posted late, and fell off the front page really quick.

I think it deserves a read by anyone who loves motor sport, and it's one of the best posts of the year by far.

This is one of the best homegrown series there is.

[Belatti]

Thanks Giblet!

I couldn't believe the how tight everyone was running, and how on edge. The cars look like the mean business, and are garagists in the true sense still.

BTW, they are still garagists in TCM and TMP (that would be "C" and "D" in the list) but all the TC and the TCP top teams are not garagists anymore. TC frontrunners manage rather large budgets, a 2 car team has at least a race team of 30 persons, high quality brakes system, shocks, wishbones, uprights and bearings, gearbox, etc... and some are already testing their chasis in 4 post rigs. They stopped building the chasis with SAE1010 steel many many years ago...

Yesterday we were testing and a TC top team was testing there, too. We had to share track time because we were using a different layout. I have to say that hearing onyl one and only car lapping arround is quite impressive, those things literally shout