Ideas to cut costs in F1

[xpensive]

Indeed, it's no secret that Ferrari and Luca Montezemolo has been against KERS lately , in which he is absolutely correct, to my mind anyway.
Each team are reportedly spending millions of dollars to develop systems in order to accumulate 0.11 kWh of energy per lap with a "green" argument?

[Metar]

But what is wrong with Formula One today was wrong before any of the present economic problems cropped up. Essentially it’s the rules, which have become ever more restrictive compressing the work of the engineers into an ever smaller area.

“As such, success in F1 today consists of optimizing every single part of the chassis to the ultimate degree and that is both extremely expensive and utterly pointless.”

The gal of the guy, when he is singularly responsible for this state of affair with his constant medling and rule changes while power tripping.

Exactly - he's the one that allowed what he calls a "McLaren Mentality" to rise, in the first place. Renault had a massive innovation on their hands when they started with the mass-dampers, and those were banned. The few aerodynamic innovations that weren't got regulated to death and quickly adopted by the whole field. The teams that tried to innovate either had it backfire (Williams?), or had to spend ages getting it up to speed (R28's radical wing-mounts)..

[WhiteBlue]

McLaren and Mercedes have strongly criticised KERS yesterday and today. So clearly they are very much in Alliance with Ferrari to pressure BMW and Williams into abandoning KERS.

In the meantime there is additional information on AMuS which is probably leaked from Merc.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 28571.html

I translate the main points of the FOTA proposal according to AMuS

• Reduction of rpm to 18.000 and four race weekend engines
• Total test stop from the begin of the season
• Use of wind tunnel restricted to one tunnel and one shift per team
• CFD computing capacity limited to 20 Tera Flops
• Team head count reduced to 250 over several years
• Next engine Formula V6 Turbo
• Customer cars approved (Williams veto)

Indeed, it's no secret that Ferrari and Luca Montezemolo has been against KERS lately , in which he is absolutely correct, to my mind anyway.
Each team are reportedly spending millions of dollars to develop systems in order to accumulate 0.11 kWh of energy per lap with a "green" argument?

You forget that KERS introduction has been eased in to favour teams with no expertise in KERS such as Ferrari in the first place. If BMW, Toyota and Williams have had their say we would see a much more radical approach. The relative small performance impact of KERS in 2009 is no argument against it. It is the result of the politicking of exactly those people who still try to kill it now.

[mx_tifoso]

IMO there are other areas to reduce expenses in, a simple and clear one is the salary of drivers. They don't have to get paid that damn much. When teams are on the brink of bankruptcy and the driver(s) is still taking up a significant percentage of the overall budget than something should be done about that. Of course it's not the one and only way forward but it's another area to reduce costs in, along with the other measures already being considered.

Jeff Gordon:
"I'll do whatever it takes for us to have the best team we can possibly have. If that means take part of my salary to keep certain people on, or to hire certain people, I'll do it."

Autosport: Gordon ready to accept pay cut

[WhiteBlue]

It looks like they sorted it out. Autosport:

FIA and FOTA confident on cost cuts

By Jonathan Noble Wednesday, December 10th 2008, 19:09 GMT

The FIA and the Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA) believe that cost-cutting measures agreed between them in Monaco today have helped ensure the sport faces a secure future.

FIA president Max Mosley met with the teams on Wednesday to work through a series of cost cutting measures for next year and 2010 that he believes are needed if the sport is to survive and prosper.

Although no details of what was agreed have been released, the FIA and FOTA issued a joint statement saying that the gathering had been the 'most successful meeting on Formula One matters which any of the participants can remember.'

The statement said that measures agreed helped achieve the aims of cutting costs, which Mosley had outlined in a letter to teams back in July. It suggested that cost cutting measures would not only provide a financial boost would also maintain: "Formula One at the pinnacle of motor sport and reinforcing its appeal."

The measures will now be put forward to the FIA World Motor Sport Council on Friday, after which full details will be released.

It is understood the measures include a dramatic reduction in testing, moves to limit wind tunnel time and aerodynamic development, plus the use of more standard parts.

Plans to give teams the option of a standard engine will likely depend on tomorrow's deadline for applications, with it clear that manufacturers will not be forced to run them if they are introduced.

Mosley said: "I am delighted with the outcome of this meeting."

FOTA President Luca di Montezemolo added: "The unity of the teams was fundamental to meeting the goals for a new Formula One, but with the same DNA, as requested by the FIA."

[xpensive]

Doh, there goes my precious methanol-burners I'm afraid, or not?

[WhiteBlue]

Doh, there goes my precious methanol-burners I'm afraid, or not?

I'm afraid, yes.

There is no alternative to a reduction of revs and the regualtion of power output. KERS will come I think, testing, tunnels and CFD will be cut. The remaining question is how the non manufacturing teams will vote with their pocket books. Pro Cosworth or will the manufacturers cut their prices to the bone to keep Cosworth out of F1. I hope the first.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Two words... BUDGET CAP.

Stop restricting the technology to try and make it cheaper, just restrict how much they can spend and let them develop whatever they want. Then potentailly we could end up with some great technological developments that are also cost effective.

[Metar]

Two words... BUDGET CAP.

Stop restricting the technology to try and make it cheaper, just restrict how much they can spend and let them develop whatever they want. Then potentailly we could end up with some great technological developments that are also cost effective.

Woohoo, that makes it two of us advocating for that system.

I'm a cold-blooded cynic, and I have no doubts that teams will find a variety of creative ways to bypass that - but instead of making teams reach 50m$ budgets by simply giving them nearly-spec cars, why don't we just restrict them to freed-up regulations cars, but on the budgets we want?

You can force every team into a standard monocoque, brakes, suspensions, gearboxes, engines, wings, wheels, tyres, wheelnuts, and probably drivers next - but where's the manufacturer's (in the old meaning: non-customer cars) championship in that? Instead, give everyone an even 40m$ from the FOM money, allow another 10m$ sponsorship-money for drivers, and perhaps small, staged bonuses according to championship position last season (say, 2m$ per position). Hire an FBIA team to track down the expenses, and then everyone has a shot - and the fans get variety.

[WhiteBlue]

First Ferrari, McLaren,Toyota and XYZ wouldn't agree with it.

Second they would cheat.

[Metar]

That's the problem. As I said before, we'll see Dallara getting a scale F2010 and a wad of cash in the mail from Marlboro (with Ferrari, of course, "not involved"), and all kinds of sponsors getting all kinds of "tasks" without connection to the F1 team they sponsor.

[WhiteBlue]

And here they are: THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OF F1

• I am the governing body and I'm telling you
• You shall have no other racing series but F1 in mind
• You shall not work more than one shift in your wind tunnel
• You shall not use more than 20 tera Flops of CFD computing power
• Remember the rpm limit and always keep it
• Honor the testing agreement and always keep it
• You shall not exceed the torque limit set by the governing body
• You shall not use anything but a standard gearbox
• You shall not charge your customers more than 5 mil for drive train
• You shall not employ more than 250 employees
• You shall not covet your competitors trade secrets
• You shall not covet your competitors drivers

and for fun we get a more relaxed explanation by George Carlin

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCz0-HY1TLU[/youtube]

[bew79]

No sure if this has been mentioned but maybe a motogp style testing arrangement whereby the teams remain at the track for a few days following a gp and test. No test team required, no additional cost on top of going to races and all teams get the same test miles. Add to this a number of official test sessions during breaks etc and it would not only significantly reduce costs but provide equality across all teams.

and stop changing the regulations, each change to the regulations is far more costly than continuing to develop an existing one. air and fuel are the two major components to generating power so rather than changing engine regs, just limit either or both of these. Eg keep reducing airbox inlet size and/or reduce amount of fuel allow to be used over a race distance. Cheap, simple and very effective so much so you could do this during a season should power levels become to high.

[mcdenife]

whiteblue wrote:
McLaren and Mercedes have strongly criticised KERS yesterday and today. So clearly they are very much in Alliance with Ferrari to pressure BMW and Williams into abandoning KERS.

Where was this criticism reported, do you have a link to it or something?

[WhiteBlue]

http://www.f1complete.com/content/view/11121/900/

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show ... ystem.html

http://www.paddocktalk.com/news/html/mo ... =8&catid=0

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/10122008/ ... -kers.html

http://www.homeofsport.com/f1/news/item.aspx?id=23740