The Fanboy Yin Yang Thread

[Raptor22]

Yip. The track is not sued often enough for the right hand side to be grippy enough to provide a start line advantage. Vettel get away well, Webber on what is supposed to be a grippier line just bogged down a little too much. Hamilton had a good start though but the RedBull's closed the door.

Cylinder, yes Webber was quicker than Vettel at the beginning of the season when he openly stated he was having trouble coming to terms with the characteristics of the car. Webber openly stayed he liked the RB8 more. It always ad good race in one of their hands.
Alonso's Ferrari has had good race pace from the start of the season. Ferrari got on op of the tyres in the race faster than anyone.
when Vettel did get the car hooked up he was quicker than Webber.
After the summer break he seems to have found himself again or has worked out aet up in the RB8 that gives him confidence in the car again. Comparing Vettel to Hill is pretty funny though. I don;t believe Hill was setting the F1 world alight before he was thrust into the position of team Leader at Williams. Vettel is 25 yrs old, a double world champion. Only Schumacher and Senna stand in front of him in number of pole positions. He's what 7h in the world rankings on race wins?
Only Fangio, Clark and Schumacher have a higher percentage of race wins per race start. Schumachers stats no doubt sullied by the syte box Merc he drives these days.

Watch the season reviews of 2007 and 2008 and you'll see that Vettel is no Hill. His achievements rank up there with Clark, Schumacher and Fangio.
Saying that Alonso is penalised by a less competitive Ferrari is crap. Ferrari were competivie in , 2010, 2011 and 2012. They're always there. the team is built around Alonso bringing home the WDC for Ferrari and off a very successful past.

That Vettel and Alonso are fantastic drivers there is no doubt. But to diminish Vettels' achievements smacks of denial.

[Raptor22]

I'm sick of people like you, people in 2011 said that he couldnt race or overtake in the pack well, his performance in Spa proved that wrong, Monza 2011 overtake- not really a fluke, Its a ridiculous statement considering you have never even driven the car, a fast car helps but according to BBC Mclaren have the fastest car, also as proved by Mclaren race strategy and pitstops play a part.. and that is one of Red Bulls strong points Mclaren have mucked up alot in that area...

Without turning this into a fanboy fest. It's really simple, I dont think you understand the difference between driver and car.

Infact you saying above Mclaren is the fastest car even now when Red Bull are locking out the front row and getting a 1-2 proves that........unless you think Mark Webber is a faster driver than Alonso and Hamilton.....which actually wouldnt suprise me tbh.

On laps times, the McLaren has been the most consistently fast car on the grid, followed by the Ferrari then the RedBull. It was mentioned during the commentary and exposed McLaren's underperformance in 2012.
We've got the two most consistent drivers at the top of the championship at the moment.

Perhaps if Lewis spent more time working on his car and mechanics and less being a twit(ter) he would still be in the championship hunt.

[beelsebob]

Yip. The track is not sued often enough for the right hand side to be grippy enough to provide a start line advantage. Vettel get away well, Webber on what is supposed to be a grippier line just bogged down a little too much. Hamilton had a good start though but the RedBull's closed the door.

Cylinder, yes Webber was quicker than Vettel at the beginning of the season when he openly stated he was having trouble coming to terms with the characteristics of the car. Webber openly stayed he liked the RB8 more. It always ad good race in one of their hands.
Alonso's Ferrari has had good race pace from the start of the season. Ferrari got on op of the tyres in the race faster than anyone.
when Vettel did get the car hooked up he was quicker than Webber.
After the summer break he seems to have found himself again or has worked out aet up in the RB8 that gives him confidence in the car again. Comparing Vettel to Hill is pretty funny though. I don;t believe Hill was setting the F1 world alight before he was thrust into the position of team Leader at Williams. Vettel is 25 yrs old, a double world champion. Only Schumacher and Senna stand in front of him in number of pole positions. He's what 7h in the world rankings on race wins?
Only Fangio, Clark and Schumacher have a higher percentage of race wins per race start. Schumachers stats no doubt sullied by the syte box Merc he drives these days.

Watch the season reviews of 2007 and 2008 and you'll see that Vettel is no Hill. His achievements rank up there with Clark, Schumacher and Fangio.
Saying that Alonso is penalised by a less competitive Ferrari is crap. Ferrari were competivie in , 2010, 2011 and 2012. They're always there. the team is built around Alonso bringing home the WDC for Ferrari and off a very successful past.

That Vettel and Alonso are fantastic drivers there is no doubt. But to diminish Vettels' achievements smacks of denial.

Hahahaha, the fact that you're trying to assert that the 2011 Ferrari was competitive is hilarious, and pretty much tears apart any argument you can make. The 2011 RedBull was dominant on the scale of the active suspension williamses.

[beelsebob]

On laps times, the McLaren has been the most consistently fast car on the grid, followed by the Ferrari then the RedBull. It was mentioned during the commentary and exposed McLaren's underperformance in 2012.
We've got the two most consistent drivers at the top of the championship at the moment.

Perhaps if Lewis spent more time working on his car and mechanics and less being a twit(ter) he would still be in the championship hunt.

Wait... you're asserting it's Lewis' job to make the car reliable? o.O

[WhiteBlue]

Please stop the fan boy drivel! This is supposed to be a race thread. Almost all the last three pages are off topic! Remember opinions about drivers do not belong here and the same is true about season performance reviews. It creates tons of work for the mods to cull all the rubbish!

[Raptor22]

On laps times, the McLaren has been the most consistently fast car on the grid, followed by the Ferrari then the RedBull. It was mentioned during the commentary and exposed McLaren's underperformance in 2012.
We've got the two most consistent drivers at the top of the championship at the moment.

Perhaps if Lewis spent more time working on his car and mechanics and less being a twit(ter) he would still be in the championship hunt.

Wait... you're asserting it's Lewis' job to make the car reliable? o.O

Of course the driver plays a role here. Of course things like a botched pit stop aren't his fault but things like suspension failure are surely problems that can be caught.
Schumachers Ferrari reliability has everything to do with his dedication to spending time on car set up and building a relationship with his mechanics and the Shell team. He wanted data on everything. gearbox wear metals, engine wear metals, age of anti roll bars etc. Chris Dyer spent many sleepless nights with the mechanics getting parts sorted out when anything was suspect. Did they catch everything? No. But they sure as heck stacked the deck in their favour. Thats where the reliability came from. At Mercedes he is not as involved and that is largely to do with location of the factory, internal team culture and I suspect that the car development is not being pushed by himself but rather the engineers. He is paid to drive the car and promote Mercedes. At Ferrari he was at the factory most of the time.

If Lewis adopted a similar approach then perhaps he would have more reliability. But its clear theres a massive rit between Hamilton and McLaren. Either he has lost interest or they have

[Gerhard Berger]

Okay, I am going to stop you here because you are are not getting it.

Now it doesn't take a genius to work out that this isnt the "Senna like" seb of 2011, so what do you think happened.....do you think it's possible that once his mega 2011 car advatange was gone....so was his dominance. Because at this point in the season, co-incidently when he car was not fastest, he looks nowhere near as dominant as he does now............co-incidently, when his car is the fastest.

In other words, It's pretty clear the CAR is a major factor in seb's dominance.

I explained it to you Vettel was in front of Webber at the end of 7th race. At the next race due his DNF, instead of increasing his lead he fell behind Webber who finished the race in 4th. And yet the stupid argument about him being behind of Webberis repeated. What is special about 9th race anyway...

I think it is obvious who is not getting it...

Botched stops doesn't explain Lewi's performance at Australia, Monaco, Germany etc...

At least when gets the best car Vettel gets the job done unlike others...

One more time, lets try basic english

Vettel with second fastest car in beginning of the season.

9 Races = 3 podiums, behind teammate in WDC.

Not the dominant force he looked like in 2011 when he had pretty much 0 competition due to a massive car advantage.

By this time not only was his teammate beating him, but Alonso who had the 3rd/4th best car, scored 5 podiums. Aka Vettel being outperformed by teammate and driver in inferior car.

Nowhere near dominant when he didn't have the fastest car like he does now. Therefore those who attribute his recent wins to some kind of extra special driving ability, whilst conveniently forgetting Red Bull are now locking out the front row again because the car is so fast.........are fickle and dont understand the difference between driver and car.

It's like looking at 1996 and saying Damon Hill was the best driver in F1 because he amassed the most points and won alot of races........ or saying Villeneuve was a better driver than Schumacher in 1997

Simples.

The funny thing is that some journalist did write articles in 96 about how Hill was better than Schumacher and that Schumacher had just gone to Ferrari for the money.

[Raptor22]

The funny thing about that bit of journalism is that it failed to take into account the stats.
In 1996, Ferrari scored 3 victories as opposed to 1 the previous year. With Schumacher they were 3rd in the championship, a lot closer than they had been any previous year since 1990.

Parallel's to Vettel. Schumacher gets into a car and it goes faster nearly straight away. Mugellow test on 412T where Schumacher took it around the lap a secnd quicker than Berger or Alesi had just a month prior.
Vettel gets into a Torro Rosso in 2007 and suddenly its qualifying higher up the grid more consistently than it had before.

The F150 won a race at Silverstone if I recall. Not the best car they've ever produced, certainly too conservative but it was often hovering around Webber indicating that in Alonso's hands it could be competitive if it could get clean air but also qualify well. They've not entirely fixed their qualifying achilles heel have they.

[Gerhard Berger]

Of course the driver plays a role here. Of course things like a botched pit stop aren't his fault but things like suspension failure are surely problems that can be caught.
Schumachers Ferrari reliability has everything to do with his dedication to spending time on car set up and building a relationship with his mechanics and the Shell team. He wanted data on everything. gearbox wear metals, engine wear metals, age of anti roll bars etc. Chris Dyer spent many sleepless nights with the mechanics getting parts sorted out when anything was suspect. Did they catch everything? No. But they sure as heck stacked the deck in their favour.

do you have a source for this? No doubt Schumacher was dedicated, but these tasks do not seem like the kind of thing a driver would do.

[Nico]

Ferrari is SANTANDER's BITCH.
This Baby sitting of ALONSO is getting out of hand... NO DRIVER SHOULD THINK HE IS BIGGER THAN THE TEAM.
Enzo whould have shat his pants and told Alonso to get on with it or leave.

[alogoc]

Ferrari is SANTANDER's BITCH.
This Baby sitting of ALONSO is getting out of hand... NO DRIVER SHOULD THINK HE IS BIGGER THAN THE TEAM.
Enzo whould have shat his pants and told Alonso to get on with it or leave.

Massa had his chance in Melbourne! points 0-0!
He is now 120 points behind and he is Alonso's BITCH!

[MarkedOne8]

In last 6 races, Massa scored more points than Alonso.Massa 58, Alonso 55.Alonso had 2 DNFs.One DNF was his fault, the other one was Grosjean's fault.

[mzivtins]

Its very subjective when we take todays pace into account for 'babysitting' Alonso, but the performance through the whole of that season in the Ferrari is what has cemented him a bit god-like in the eyes of Ferrari, it can be annoying, but by god i think he earnt it a little

[Nico]

In last 6 races, Massa scored more points than Alonso.Massa 58, Alonso 55.Alonso had 2 DNFs.One DNF was his fault, the other one was Grosjean's fault.

He could have scored more than Alfonso in this race also, it would have been a fair fight but Montezemolo bitch needs protection.
Even if it is at the expense of team points, I think Massa could have applied more pressure on Web.
I do not like this modern Ferrari team - htey are not living up to their "racing pedigree"
And BTW alonso is overrated and over the hill, he has done nothing in the last 5 years exept moan, pull faces and talk a lot of ---

[alogoc]

Alonso and Ferrari will win 2012 title!